TR2/3/3A Triumph TR3 Hand crank alignment

[Hydroglen]

I am redoing a 1955 TR3 and one of the things that is not ligning up is the hand crank.
It will fit but not if I use the guide that is in behind the grille.
I removed the guide and the hand crank goes in but does not sit square in one of the grille openings but rather to one side.
I can do some metal cutting and reposition the guide. Solves the problem but then it will not sit in the center in the grille opening.
Anybody run in to this before?
Thanks
Dorien

 

[DougF]

My motor mounts sagged over the years and don't line up either. I'm not going to worry about getting it to line up though.
You can always tell a car that has been started with the hand crank by looking at the chewed up grille hole.
The small mouth might be different grille hole wise.

 

[TR3driver]

The factory also used shims in the motor and radiator mounts, to help line up the crank.

But I can't quite see how the guide could be off-center to the grille, which is what I think you are saying, unless something is pretty badly distorted.

Personally, I lost the crank hole in the radiator many years ago (when the radiator shop said that I would have about 10% more cooling capacity without it).

 

[Hydroglen]

Thanks guys,
Well the engine and rad hole are in perfect alignment, so that discounts engine mounts. The guide as it is, is centered with the grille opening square, but then when the handle goes in it is not in line with the rad opening.
I removed the guide ring and then slipped the handle in easily. That is OK for timing the engine but you can't put any pressure to really crank it over because you need the guide as a fulcrum.
Maybe I need to move the engine and rad over?
Dorien

 

[CJD]

If you do you will be tempted to start her with the crank handle....

....I used a grill without the crank hole, just so I would never be tempted!

If you insist, though, you may be able to gain a little alignment by loosening all the wing bolts and shoving the front apron where you need it...or elongating the holes in the apron to move the guide over slightly...or loosen the body mount bolts and shove the hole tub over a little. Just thinking out loud...

John

 

[Don Elliott]

Dorien - Whenever I had the front apron etc, off, I had to line up these parts at re-assembly to ensure that I could still get the hand-crank back in correctly. As Randall has written, the radiator has pads under the bottom bolts and thicker rubber pads can lift the rad. If it's off to one side, you can slot the holes making them longer so you can slide the rad horizontally.

If your air filter for the front carb is hitting the inner fender at idle speed, it means that your motor mounts need to be changed for new ones. This will lift the front end of the engine to line up the hole in the rad and to solve the carb filter hitting the inside of the fender.

If you want to see mine, give me a call or send me an e-mail message

450 672-2442
58tr3a@videotron.ca

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A, Brossard

 

[Hydroglen]

Thanks guys.
The issue is that the engine and rad lign up very nicely. Moving the frt apron over would require more moving and create other issues. I am used to hand cranking cars so not an issue. I would use the hand crank for timing the engine also.
The engine / rad would have to move over to the left (facing the car) to lign up and the frt air filter is only about 1/4" away from the inner fender. No way to move it unless I changed intake ???
Dorien

 

[Geo Hahn]

I, for one, am having a hard time visualizing the problem -- I suppose because I didn't realize there was more than a skosh of wiggle room in how the body was fitted.

Is the radiator centered? On mine the distance between the inner wings is 23" and thus the center of the crank hole is 11.5" from either inner wing.

If all else fails some pictures might help.

 

[mallard]

Is the crank hole in the radiator in the right place? Do you know the history of the car and radiator? It may have been recored and they got the hole in the wrong place.

 

[Got_All_4]

Looks like you have some alining to do and readjusting mechanical and body parts. These cars were hand made and lots of shims and adjusting at the factory and at the dealerships after delivery. I would resist cutting the apron and moving the guide over. That's chop shop stuff. Do it the right way.

I guess too if all else fails and that crank is that important to you. you can always weld a universal joint into it.

 

[Hydroglen]

Thanks,
As mentioned the rad and engine lign up. The apron is off and maybe the grille?
I have pictures but no luck attaching them.
Perhaps as John suggested, I need to move the whole body over. Will have a look at that.....oh what fun!!!
Dorien

 

[CJD]

Hey Dorien,

If the air cleaners are that close, it sounds like moving the body left will create clearance problems there, as you pointed out. Unfortunately, if that is the case, then moving the engine and radiator right will also result in the same air cleaner clearance issues. Hmmmm....

Option 4, and not any easier (in fact, a downright PITA), is to relocate the guide mount on the apron. That will require drilling the spot welds and re-welding in the correct position.

John

 

[Hydroglen]

Hey John,
Thanks..... that is infact my fall back position. It means that the guide will not sit square in the grille window, but that is low enough that it is not readily noticeable.
I guess my BIG question /curiosity is why??? Would like to know more before I do that.
The issue is that the engine and rad are lined up and the guide sits nicely centered in the grille window.
The two pairs don't line up?
Dorien

 

[CJD]

The grill lines with the apron...the engine and radiator line on the chasis. It sounds like the body is off center slightly on the chasis. You are likely the first to catch it in the last 50 years!

How is the gap around the bonnet? Would there , by chance be more space on the right than left?

John

 

[Hydroglen]

Well maybe I am the first..do I get a prize? Did some more measuring and looking and yes the body/apron is off. The gap between apron and rad are different and the wheels are off when using the fender bead as a guide.
If the rad and the wheels /tires were in line, then the apron / crank would line up.
Problem is that the frt carb filter is about 1/4" or less from the inner fender.
Next.... the frame and body line up evenly on both sides of the engine. Maybe they are not supposed to?
Can remove carbs and see about moving the body over. The manifold is for a later car and that could be a problem. The generator braket would be bit close....
Dorien

 

[Geo Hahn]

Is the radiator centered? On mine the distance between the inner wings is 23" and thus the center of the crank hole is 11.5" from either inner wing...

I didn't see an answer to that -- I would think that measurement would tell the tale as to whether the body is off-center and by exactly how much.

 

[Hydroglen]

I am sorry, but I don't get any measurements such as you have.
Can you give me a measurement from the beading? Might be easier to compare numbers. The radiator hole lines up beautifully with the engine nose, so it is cenetered both vertically and horizontally. As mentioned above the body sits evenly on the frame as viewed from above on both sides of the engine.
Dorien

 

[Got_All_4]

There is a possibility that the car was in a front side collision and the apron was pushed over. It possibly wasn't bad enough and all they did was reline the body parts. Or the frame was not pulled back all the way if they tried to fix it proper. May be worth some setup time on a frame machine in a good collision shop and take some good measurements. All that may need to be done is good pull to get it back correctly.

 

[Hydroglen]

I think you got it! Did a lot of measuring and jigged the frame and looking at pictures of other cars. Frame is fine and so are the body mountings. I have the later intake and carbs that restricts body movement to the side, but there are other Tr3 with this set up, so that is not the problem. I will look for the original set up at some time.
Looks like (as you say) the apron got damaged and the inner cone got brazed / fixed and repositioned over to the left too much.
A very neat job (in a way) and never noticed if you didn't use the hand crank.
Thanks,
Dorien

 

[Don Elliott]

I have seen a few TR4 intake manifolds on some TR3s and they leave much less space between the front air filter and the inner fender. Some owners have taken a huge hammer mallett and dented down into the inner fender to get the clearance they wanted. I don't agree with this idea.

In my very original TR3A when the filters were hitting the inner fender during idle I replaced the motor mounts under the front engine plate. This lifted the engine and provided the space needed between the front air filter and the inner fender. But then I had to add thicker rubber pads at the bottom of the radiator to lift the rad so the hole for the hand-crank was in proper alignment.

On a late TR3A I restored, it had the longer TR4 intake manifold so we modified some thin air filters to fit. See attachment.