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TRF Gear Reduction Starters

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Aldwyn

Aldwyn

Jedi Warrior
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The Weekend sale of the gear reduction starters at TRF has me thinking about replacing my old starter. It's the stock starter, and when the car is cold, it takes a good 15 turns to get the motor running. So I have been thinking about a new starter for months, with this bringing it up again.

Has anyone tried the ones TRF has for sale, and if so, comment on how good they are?

And how hard is it to put one in? Looks like there is a LOT of stuff to go through to get to the starter. Do you attack it from below? Remove the carbs? If it can be gotten at, the hook up looks like it would be pretty simple.

Thanks!
Aldwyn
 
Hi, Aldwyn -

Can't comment on the installation for the TR6, but I put one in the TR3 I had - great investment. Much smaller, lighter unit, and worked like a champ. It was a very easy installation in the 3.

There was an issue, though. The allen screws that hold the nose piece to the body worked themselves loose after a short while. Caused the starter to spin, and I thought it was done for. Tightened them up and added a dose of Loctite, and no more problems. I recommend doing that before you install it, just in case.

Mickey
 
Interestingly, I called TRF to get a new gear reduction starter. They may be on sale but they don't have any in stock. Moss finally got me one today. After sending a rebuilt Lucas. Different starter from the original one I got from TRF. Hmmmmm. Makes me wonder. The one from Moss came in nice pretty box with some American components but the box stated that this particular company rebuilds starters. When does it all end?
 
In all actuality, I would say from what I've seen, is that ALL of these gear reduction starters are rebuilds. They take a popular Hitachi or Nippondenso starter and just add a new mounting face and pinion gear that will mate up with whatever the application is. Nothing wrong with this approach, and nothing wrong with a properly re-manufactured starter. You're paying for the engineering involved with getting the mounting plate manufactured...the pinions come in a multitude of sizes and teeth count, so they use what's appropriate.

In the future, if any service is ever needed on the starter, any local rebuilder will be able to handle the rebuild, as the parts needed are available in large quantity both new and from cores. This will cost much less then acquiring another gear reduction starter.
 
Hey Aldwyn, Changed mine over a couple months ago.
As I recall I only removed the air filters and got the old one in and the new one out from above. The ordeal was getting the bolts back in. It was a tedious operation that in the end required taping a nut to either my finger or a wrench back in a nitch that with my body turned upside down and everything but inside out threading it onto a bolt.
In the end there was sweet success and no more starting problems. Outstanding upgrade. Phil
 
A good trick for holding a nut on a wrench that has always worked for me is to get a small piece of paper and double it over to fit on the opening of a box wrench. Then push the nut, with the paper into the wrench. If you have too much paper hanging out, just trim or tear off the excess. It will hold the nut very nicely while you finesse it into position. If the nut seems loose in the box wrench, just add another layer of paper.
 
Thanks for the comments, gents!

Weird that TRF is having a sale on starters they dont even have! :-0 And acting like they are going to sell out... how can you sell out of a starter you dont have in stock in the first place?!

But it doesnt surprise me that they are rebuilt. What does surprise me is that they are not advertised as such.
 
Aldwyn said:
But it doesnt surprise me that they are rebuilt. What does surprise me is that they are not advertised as such.
Click to expand...

If you notice, they are also NOT advertised as NEW. If you go on the Moss site and look up starters for the TR6, you will see the hi-torque gear reduction starter, and it doesn't mention new or rebuilt. If you click on the Lucas starter, they will say it is NEW...why didn't they say that for the gear reduction unit...because it isn't. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif

https://www.mossmotors.com/Browse/PlateMe...bcomponentID=52
 
Since this thread is somewhat related to Bill K's original one on his starter problem and I couldn't get my reply thru at the time. Has anyone else chewed up a ring gear using these things. A friend had the same problem as Bill did, but on a TR4. Which got me thinking could they be too much of a good thing (hi torque and hi speed) for the TR ring gears, which originally were simply induction hardened cast iron. A very thin hard surface over brittle cast iron. Maybe they just mill their way thru the teeth trying to engage.
Tom Lains
TS8651 & 58107
 
I bought the TRF Gear Reduction Starter for my TR3A and it fit without any adjustments (many of the ebays etc must be clocked) and was the best change to the car ever.
The old Triumph Starters are tired and will run the battery down on many occasions. Put it on, enjoy and you will love it.
AK
 
I went to order one tonight, and found that my account on TRF was no longer there! I have an inch think of receipts that say otherwise... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Weird... nothing to do with this subject, really, just saying. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Anyone else have their accounts vanish off TRF's web site?
 
The only problem I have ever had with my Triumph starters has been the curly brush springs. My TR6 has never failed and I only remember the starter in my GT6 failing once in 60k miles. But the one in my TR4 failed on several occasions in 75k+ miles. The first time I had it rebuilt and it seemed expensive. The second time I took it apart myself and noticed the springs looked like they had gotten real hot. I replaced them and the starter worked great. From then on I kept a set or two of the springs on hand and just replaced them when the starter started to seem to be "tired". I am not sure why the current seems to run through the springs instead of the brush wire but that is the only thing I can figure out. If someone could figure out a solution to that I see no reason for ever going to a hi-torque starter especially on a near stock engine.
 
This thread got me thinking. The only
thing electrical in the Crypt Car that
I have not ripped out and replaced is
DPO Pedro's starter assembly.

Sometimes the starter makes a noise like a
high pitched scream and does not crank over
the engine.

Pedro's starter is currently out of the Crypt
Car during the attempted clutch replacement.

Should I order a replacement starter TRF? while
the car is still in pieces?

thanks

D
 
Dale,

The starter is a rather simple motor. Usually the only things that need replacing are the bushings and brushes.

If you are going to buy one then the taking apart is "free".

So take it apart and look it over. First use a center punch and mark the parts so you can easily align them when reassembling. No rocket science here. Clean it and check the bearings and brushes. Emory the commutator.

If things look good just order new bushings, brushes, and brush springs. A small dab of grease for the bushings and reassemble it. For a small amount of dollars you will most likely have a good starter and if not the cost will not be high. The hardest part of this job is reassembly to get the brushes over the commutator again, but not that difficult.

While it is out it would probably be a good idea to replace the solenoid. For some reason mine have gone out soon after having it on the bench and crawling back under the car to reinstall the starter.
 
Gents. if I may offer a suggestion regarding starter mount bolts:
I take a piece of 1/8" x 5/8" flat stock, about 1 1/2" long and drill a hole in the center of it. Slip this over the shank of the bolt, and weld it to the bolt head. You'll never have to use two wrenches again, as the new "ears" will wedge themselves in place, preventing the bolts from turning.
It's worked for me for years.
Jeff
 
I like the tip Jeff, and will add it to my to do list as the my engine rebuild progresses. Now what can I do with that starter wrench I bought 40 yrs. ago except toss it into the outmoded tool box which is actually starting to get kinda heavy.

To Dale: That's a likely solenoid problem on your starter. It's not actuating and throwing the pinion gear into the ring. Might just be an external intermittent open though. Some corrosion on the connectors perhaps. When they get wound up (screaming) without engaging that can damage the commutator on the armature. Loosens up the segments from too much rpm. I would follow the advice of everybody above and clean it, add brushes and springs (and maybe a solenoid if cleaning doesn't do it).
 
Sorry, folks - Tried to move just TRMark's post about the magnetic glove to the Tools forum, and all the responses went with it. Will notify Basil to see about resetting them back over here. (Thought it was a good idea at the time! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif )

Mickey
 
I replaced the starter in my Tr4 with A TRF gear reduction starter about a year ago, and it's the best thing I have ever done! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/bow.gif The thing weighs so much less, it's so much powerful and it uses so much less battery power than the original there is no comparison /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/yesnod.gif. There are no installation issues and they do send printed instructions in the box about the wiring options. I chose to use my original relay vs the new wire from the starter switch method. Just do it you will not be sorry . /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif
 
The Crypt Car has a TR250 engine block and what
appears to be a TR4A tranny.

Do I order a TR250 or TR6 starter motor or
solenoid from Moss?

thanks as always

Dale
 
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