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TR4/4A Transmission Input Shaft Clearance Problem

bammons

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In putting my input shaft together I find that I do not have clearance to fit the retaining clip in. This should be easy there are only the input shaft, oil deflector washer, bearing, spacer washer and the retaining clip. I am about 1/2 the thickness of the clip short of getting it in. I have pounded on it harder than I want to. New bearing from Moss. Has anyone run across this? Should I try to make the spacer washer thinner? Or remove the oil deflector washer? The bearing seems to be the same thickness as the old but I not sure if the chamfer where it fits around the raised portion on the shaft (the raised portion that centers the oil defector) is as big. Is this something someone has run across and can advise?
 

CJD

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Some bearings are "sided", in that the inner bearing has a chamfer on only one side.
 
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bammons

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These bearings are supplied with the case retaining ring already put on so they only can go one way impossible to put in wrong unless you really aren't paying attention. It does have a chamfer. I think I will put the old bearing on and see what that gives me in clearance.
 

Graham H

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I purchased a rebuild kit some years ago from one of the usual suspects and when I went to fit the new input shaft bearing I found the outer case was different from the original and the oil deflector would not fit so I refitted the original, you could have the same problem?

Graham
 
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bammons

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Yes I believe so. My question now is do I eliminate the oil deflector washer or grind down the spacer washer between the snap ring and the bearing? I have seen a transmission without the oil deflector washer maybe for the same reason. I do not believe the bearing has any more space to move. It would seem that the oil deflector is not that important as the bearing should be receiving a continuous bath at all times???
 

CJD

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I have been sitting here trying to remember the details of your assembly. I seem to recall that the ID of the oil deflector is such that it has room to "wiggle". As the bearing is pressed the deflector has to remain perfectly centered, or it can get caught on a bevel on the input shaft. The result would be an extra oil washer thickness in the assembly. This should be visible if you study the deflector and bearing position closely. If the deflector looks out of round with the bearing, then it is not centered.

If all seems well, then I agree with taking the needed clearance out of the front washer.
 
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bammons

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I have studied the fit as it does center on a raised protrustion on the input shaft but it can move. I have looked at the perimeter around the gear to see if it is even all around and it seems to be. The spacer washer is fairly thick (.092) and I know it is the correct washer so I guess I will shave it down and hope that the push against it is not that great (it should not be). I guess that is the lesser of the two evils but I don't like it as it will be significantly thinner.
 
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bammons

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I have not tried putting it together without the oil deflector but not to sound ignorant if that allowed the snap ring to fit is the oil deflector all that important?
 

CJD

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If the deflector can move, then removing it will not decrease the stack height. I know Muncies and Saginaw from GM used no oil deflectors...but I can’t say if they help in these little British tranny’s.
 

Graham H

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Have you checked the measurements of the two bearings? if the new one is bigger then there is your problem. Are you changing the bearing because it is worn or noisy or only because you have it apart may be just go back to the original?

Graham
 

philstr6

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the oil thrower should be .036 not .092,are you installing a new oil thrower or the one you took off
and the oil thrower needs to be in place as well
Phil

post a picture of that oil thrower
 
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bammons

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CJD When the bearing is on as far as it will go the oil deflector does not move anymore. Graham - I am changing it because "I am there" and don't want to rebuild again. The bearing that came out is original RMD and so would date to 64 -65 or so. It spent time in a salvage yard and I just thought it should be replaced. Tranny has never been into before. It seems using my Harbor Freight caliper that the thickness is the same (confusing me greatly). Philstr6 - the dimension I gave (.092) was for the spacer washer between the snap ring and the bearing on the other side of the bearing from the oil thrower washer.
 

philstr6

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Ok
what size spacer washer do you have at the rear of the trannie where the big end bearing is,I think you have those mixed up,take a look,I believe it should be .067 and that should go to your input and the .092 at the rear of the big end bearing
when I get home I will look at mine
Phil
 
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bammons

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Phil - According to the Buckeye article on rebuilding a transmission it has a chart listing most of the washers and it gives the thickness of the big washer between 1st gear and the rear main bearing as 0.141. I have a extra used one which I measured and came up with .120. I have the mainshaft in so I cannot measure the one I am using now but I know that it was thick, more in line with these two figures. I do not believe I have them mixed up but I have been wrong before. Let me know if you see something different.
 

philstr6

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The spacer at the rear of the big bearing outside the trans,not the thick washer behind 1st gear,its the spacer washer that you put on after the you install the rear big end bearing,then the spacer and the circle clip,I think the one you have there is the .067 and the .092 goes were it goes
Phil
call me 805 801 1736

the washer on the input shaft should be .067

thumbnail (5) (Medium).jpg

thumbnail (4) (Medium).jpg the washer where the rear big end bearing should be .092
I think you need to check the washer size on the rear big end bearing,its probly the .067,I think you have them reversed,easy to do
Phil
 
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bammons

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Phil - Once again I will refer to the Buckeye site where they took the average of washer on two transmissions and then posted them which is a great help. They show .94 (.094?). The washer I installed there is .092 and I had a lot of difficulty in getting the snap ring in on that location also. I have no washers that measure .067 or close except possibly the oil deflector washer. I have now ground down the washer on the end of the input shaft to approximately .062 + or - from .092 and have fitted the snap ring. This allowed me to retain the oil deflector washer and shows that you may be correct about the required thickness. Now to install the input shaft and move on to getting the layshaft shaft back in. Although I greased the washers at each end of that to keep them in place as per the manual I know that they have dropped down some so this might be hard - we'll see. Thanks for everybodies help I don't have local help so I rely on what I can find out here.
 

philstr6

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Ok
for future .067 goes to the input shaft and .092 at the rear big end bearing,if you need any .067 I have plenty of spares if you would like a few,also
buck eye is wrong on that the input shaft washer should be .067 not .094 things happen
Phil
 
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