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Hi all, just wanted to drop a thank you to everyone who offered experience and advice for my TR6 clutch job a few weeks back. I've finally gotten everything back together and it worked out real well. The job wasn't nearly as big a pain as I was expecting. A bit more involved than my Mustangs and Chevys with the trans having to come out through the interior and all but it made up some ground in the fact that the transmission itself was very light and one person could easily handle it. Ever try to lift a Ford C6 or GM TH350 yourself? Not fun.

Anyway, turns out that when I got everything apart there were one or two little surprises. First off, the release fork pin was completely sheared, but it was all somehow staying together as the clutch was still working fine right up until the day I pulled the trans. I took the cross shaft and fork over to my friends shop and he drilled a second hole for me on the opposite side from the existing pin, and at 90 degrees to the original hole. I then fitted a grade 8 bolt with a nyloc nut through that new hole, and used some loktight on that as well. Also replaced the factory pin with the hardened piece from Moss. I also replaced the bearing carrier, the cross shaft bushings, and the little pins that fit in the ends of the release fork that engage the groove in the bearing carrier, the old ones were worn flat on one side.

Another intersting discovery was that the entire inside of the bell housing was covered in a thick layer of this black sludge. I figured out that the seals in the front of the trans were leaking and the goo was a mixture of baked gear oil and clutch material dust. Took me almost an hour with a huge can of carb cleaner and some rags to get it all off and clean in there. I replaced the input shaft seal, the gasket for the front plate that the seal sits in, and the little gasket on the countershaft block off plate. While I was at it I also replaced the seal on the tailhousing around the output shaft, since it looked like a little fluid was coming from there also. The top cover gasket and trans body gaskets looked OK. I replaced the rubber trans mounts also. I ended up going with a LUK clutch kit; disk, plate, and bearing all LUK. I got a really good deal on one from a guy on Ebay, brand new, for about what Moss charges for the B&B kit. I had just done the hydraulics this past fall, fresh rebuilds of both the master and slave and a nice stainless braided line. Finished it off with a fill of Redlines MT90 synthetic gear oil, I love that stuff, works great.


So far I like the action of this clutch alot. It's kind of heavy for the first bit of travel, then seems to lighten up as it gets nearer to full release, kind of like a compound bow. The clutch engagement is beautifully smooth, I can now pull away from stops smoother than I have ever been able to do since owning this car. The old clutch was completely shot, the bearing was so worn it rattled in my hand (cheap green brand bearing) and the disk was down to the copper rivets. I put the caliper on it and it was slightly more than half the thickness of the new disk, not much left at all. Explains all the slipping. The flywheel was fine, no burn marks or scorching, nice even wear. I ended up just cleaning it up myself with some emery cloth.

All in all it came out nice. Interior is going back in now since I've test driven it and everything appears OK. Now on to the next job, I've got a nice humming coming from one of my rear hubs, time for some new rear bearings. I guess it never ends. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif Thanks again for the pointers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 
It all sounds so easy! I need to pull my tranny to replace the brass bushings on 2nd gear (it pops out of gear under deceleration/braking,) but I'm afraid to try to do it myself. Also, my OD has never worked, so I was thinking it was getting time to attack that.
 
Hey Sammy - let us know how it goes. Mine is doing the same thing. Figures that 20 years too late I discover that standard GL5 is NOT what you use in these transmissions.

Where was the internet when I needed it back then ????

My justification for living with it popping out is that it is a safety feature that prevents me from taking those 2nd gear corners too fast!

I'm trying to decide if I want to tackle my known problems on the current transmission or throw in the mystery TR4 transmission I bought from a guy in the St. Louis Triumph club for 50 bucks years ago.
 
Re: Trans back in [and popping out of gear]

Hi Scott,

Glad to hear the project turned out well and sounds like you did it right!

By the way, the condition of the clutch and T.O. bearing might be due to... the sheared taper pin. The little bit of extra play that a sheared pin will cause usually leads to rapid wear and early failure of both those parts. Even the build up on the inside of the bellhousing might be due to very rapid disintegration of the driven plate, as a result of the play and the clutch never fully disengaging. Good precaution, though, to replace those seals while you have it all apart!

I'm considering experimenting with a Tilton hydraulic clutch release... eliminating the shaft, fork, T.O. bearing, slave cylinder and all the related problems! It's either that or the Gunst. I'll let everyone know the results, if and when I get around to it.

Jim and Sam, By any chance are you using synthetic oil in your gearboxes? Popping out of gear is a classic symptom of synthetic oil in TR gearboxes... It's often cured once and for all just by switching back to plain old mineral-based 20w50 racing oil.

On the other hand, Scott, I've heard good things about Redline synthetic. Haven't any firsthand experience with it, though.

Cheers!

Alan
 
Re: Trans back in [and popping out of gear]

Hi all,
When I had Quantum add a J-type to my 4-speed, he insisted that I use straight 30 wt. non-detergent oil or he would void the warrenty. There are more than a few views on which oil to use. Was using Hypoy GL4 before the overdrive was added on. Go figure.

Bill
 
Re: Trans back in [and popping out of gear]

Yeah with the gear oil in these cars everyone seems to have unique experiences and opinions. When I first got the car I had put in regular old Pennzoil GL5. Then a week later I was reading about how bad the GL5 fluid was for these older transmissions with all the yellow metals in them. I started looking for a GL4 oil and the only one I could find locally was the Redline stuff. My buddies have all used Redline fluids in their cars and have raved about their products, so I figured it's probably pretty high quality stuff. Have had it in there ever since, 4 years and no complaints at all. The most noticeable thing I've found is the transmission shifts just as smoothly on a cold 10 degree morning as it does in the dead of summer. No having to wait for the oil to warm up before you're able to get smooth shifts. I used to have that problem with my Jeep Wrangler, and that was a fairly new vehicle (1995). Put the Redline in that as well and the problem went away. The only thing I've been warned about, and maybe I saw the effects of this on the job I just did, is that the Redline fluid is very thin, it almost looks like automatic tranny fluid when you pour it. Because of this, if you don't have good tight seals and gaskets it can leak. If I had regular old gear oil in my trans I might not have had quite as bad a leak in the front and that sludge buildup. If you're leaking fluid and you're using normal gear oil, then you're going to end up going through a ton of this stuff.

Alan, what you said makes complete sense as far as the broken taper pin causing the excellerated wear of the bearing and the plate. It has always amazed me how little actual travel there is in a clutch release system, that arm doesn't move much at all when you press in the pedal. Since there is so little travel needed I would assume that even a small degree of deflection, say from a bent or broken pin, could have a pretty significant result. Hopefully the setup I've got now will last for a good while. Boy, that would be cool if you could get the hydraulic release setup in your trans, I'd love to see that. Is that a kit you can buy and retrofit in, or is this something your putting together yourself?
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

Hi Scott,

The hydraulic clutch release is available as a kit from one or more of the British vendors. Here's an example at https://www.racetorations.co.uk/drivetrain/pages/clutch2.html

However, I am pretty sure that kit is based upon or very similar to the Tilton "universal" 600-series releases. With a bit of machining work, I'm quite sure one of those could be made to fit and work well on TRs. https://www.tiltonracing.com/content.php?page=hydraulic

Right now I'm leaning toward the hydraulic release instead of the Gunst T.O. bearing, but still could change my mind. I guess it partly depends on the relative cost of the two options! (There's the old Scot in me showing up again.)

Cheers!

Alan
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

I don't know which oil is in my car, but I took off the trans top, and that brass bushing is totally loose and worn. I suppose I can always try filling it with the racing oil, but I don't think it will make much difference. Remember, it's only under deceleration, which is when that bushing slides and allows the gear to pop out. And it never pops out of any other gear.

Funny, I just hold it in gear while I take second-gear corners at break-neck speeds!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

I recently finished this as well. I think you all remember a while I complained about my car not starting right... well it was the ring gear after all. Had to pull the tranny and clutch out and remove the flywheel. Not only was the ring gear worn badly, but it was on the flywheel cockeyed... kind of strange and the first case of this I've heard of. In any case, a new gear went on, tack welded in two spots, and it's good to go. Like Scott said, it's really not that hard. In fact, its been harder getting my **** brakes working again (bum parts from Vicky Brit) than to pull the transmission.

Sammy, just go ahead and do it. Get a friend and the two of you can pull the thing in less than 45 minutes once the interior is all removed. 1 tip though: put a scissor jack under the rear of the engine to support it, and if you have a hydrolic floor jack, put it underneath the transmission so it can't fall while you're pulling it out. Makes it a lot easier.
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

[ QUOTE ]
Sammy, just go ahead and do it. Get a friend and the two of you can pull the thing in less than 45 minutes once the interior is all removed. 1 tip though: put a scissor jack under the rear of the engine to support it, and if you have a hydrolic floor jack, put it underneath the transmission so it can't fall while you're pulling it out. Makes it a lot easier.


[/ QUOTE ]

Something like what Webb suggests will work well. I supported the back of the motor with a little hydraulic bottle jack that I have and a piece of 2x4. Then I built a little platform under the transmission with a few cinder blocks and some 1x6 planks. When I pulled the trans free of the clutch and the studs, it dropped about a half inch onto the platform. I then just dragged it back and up by the rear and hauled it out. I got everything out by myself, and it still took me less than an hour once the interior was out of the way. Getting it back in I had a buddy helping me get everything lined up and moved forward. I'm sure I could have gotten it back in myself, but it would have been much more physical effort and probably taken twice as long. With my friends help we had it back in and everything bolted up for the test drive in just a few minutes shy of an hour, but I had bolted the flywheel and clutch up before he came over. Still wasn't bad though.

JUST DO IT! You know you want to, it'll be fun (famous last words). I bet you can hear it calling to you in the night when you're trying to get to sleep, or is it only me that hears my car talking to me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif.
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

I don't know about Sammy but for me getting the tranny out is not a problem. I'm just wondering about digging into the gears themselves. It looks to me like the most complicated thing on the car and I don't want to end up with a box of parts with 2 or 3 extra parts shooting off into a black hole somewhere.
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

Jim,
Looking at the picture attached to your signature, what color is your car? I ask because my 61 is a metalic coppertone that looks very similiar. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

thanks RL
 
Re: Trans back in [now hydraulic clutch release]

The DPO painted it what he called "Corvette Mille Miglia Red". It is a little more orange in bright sun than I'd prefer but repainting is way down on my list.

The color in my signature is just some artistic license with Photoshop and liberal use of the "artistic - poster edges" filter. It's more of a stylized drawing than reality at this point.
 
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