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Wedge TR7 - 8 conversions

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So I've been thinking about a TR8 for a while now. This of course while the -6 hasn't run for nearly a year, and isn't likely to unless I can invent a time machine.

I was looking at the number of cheap clean TR7s out there, and wondering about the 7-8 conversion. This got me thinking - is there anything that stops a 302 going in there instead of the BOPR 289? My thought was of course that these engines are dirt cheap and can be made to put out obscene amounts of hp for very little. I know the rest of the drivetrain will likely have to be swapped out too, but then isn't that the case for the TR8 conversion?

Just thinking out loud...
 
That's a good question and I can't believe someone hasn't tried it. Plenty of power potential, but their biggest downside is weight, ie: all iron of the 289 vs. all aluminum of the BOPR 3.5, probably a good 200 lbs difference plus the extra couple of pounds for a T-5 tranny. You could develop the suspension to compensate for the extra weight but you'd still have a serious weight distribution issue. Double your rear tire budget.

That's just my $.02 worth but I'd love to hear if anyone has had any real experience to report.

Tom
 
I think the HP potential of the 3.5 Rover-BOP is pretty much limitless. CHeck out Lanocha, Ted, Woody. You can bore it out to 5 litres, you can super charge it, you can turbo charge it. All while maintaining the weight and stock mounts. For the money spent to buy 289 and fab a 289 mount and tranny and ect... you could build yourself a beast... Just my opinion
 
There are quite a few TR7's running around with both Ford and Chevy V8s. The main problem with the 302 is that it is a 60 degree V8. It has a taller block than the Rover which all ready poses a hood clearance problem. As far as the extra weight goes, that is a moot point. Even if there was a 150 pound difference between a complete Rover and a complete American V8, there is easily that amount of junk weight in the front of a TR8 just "weighting" to be removed. Cast iron exhaust manifolds, smog controls, A/C, power steering, 70 pounds of front bumper just to name some. To get 300HP out of a Rover V8 you are looking at 5 grand minimum if you are starting from scratch. Add another grand for a fresh five speed, and another grand for a bell housing, flywheel and driveshaft. Give me that money and a clean TR7, and I can build a 400HP American V8 powered TR7 that will handle the same as a Rover powered one, but will outrun it in a straght line. Lanocha has a twin turbo chevy V8 in one of his TR8s that I am told can push 1100 HP and run 8 second 1/4 mile times. Lets see you get that out of a Rover V8. Don't take this to mean that I don't like the Rover. I love the TR8 and the Rover motors that come in them, but if I just wanted a fast car, I'd drop 5 grand on a wrecked GTO and get the LS2 and T-56.
 
I am in no means a purist, but you need to consider the cost of moding a front mount for the new V8, the cost for the tranny for the new engine, a modified drive shaft, a different rear axle. It is nice to say 5 grand for 300 horse power from the Rover and that is probably a little high, but not much, but the cost of the American engine, the mods to make it fit, the mods to the engine to make the 300 or 400 HP out of the American Engine (not allot of US engines sitting around that make 400 HP for sale cheap. I would base it on the Chevy High Pro 283 my brother bought for $3500 that needed another $2000 to make it run right with the fuel and drive line)

The comes the important decision, how much horsepower can effectively be put on the ground. The widest you can do for the tires are 215's unless you mod the fenders. I am pushing 230hp and it twists the heck out of my DHC making my doors even groan under heavy acceleration. My FHC was not nearly as bad but I would have to say more that what I have and you would have to do something to help the rigidity of the body. To make 400 HP work you would need to get some of Lanocha fender flairs and use something closer to 275 for tires.

I guess either way to get 300 HP it will not be real cheap but it might be lots of fun
 
alana said:
So I've been thinking about a TR8 for a while now. This of course while the -6 hasn't run for nearly a year, and isn't likely to unless I can invent a time machine.

I was looking at the number of cheap clean TR7s out there, and wondering about the 7-8 conversion. This got me thinking - is there anything that stops a 302 going in there instead of the BOPR 289? My thought was of course that these engines are dirt cheap and can be made to put out obscene amounts of hp for very little. I know the rest of the drivetrain will likely have to be swapped out too, but then isn't that the case for the TR8 conversion?

Just thinking out loud...
Click to expand...

I was thinking the exact same thing. Went so far as to purchase a 302 with a T5 trans. Here's what I DO know. You will need a dual sump pan. The oil pump is in the front of the block. This allows the engine to stradle the K frame and steering thus allowing you more hood clerance. Since this is a V8 it will require you to move the radiator foward. This can be solved by using TR8 radiator mounts (I believe. I haven't actually done this yet). The T5 will fit nicely on the existing trans crossmember with some modifications. I am trying to find a trans mount that will work. Mustang mounts are a little tall. This is about as far as I have gotten with this project. If there is anything else you need to know, let me know. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
I see your $5500 283 and raise you one. I recently bought a TVR 280i at an auction that some moron tried to stuff a 86 Corvette 350CI motor into. I paid $275 for the whole car, and I've easily made that back in parts sales. I gave the motor to a buddy of mine. It had a nice camshaft, Edelbrock performer intake, Holley carb, rams horn manifolds, and probably a few more goodies inside. It now sits in his 72 Corvette all cleaned up. Sucka is fast. And oh by the way, it was basically free. Point is, there is tons of stuff out there for Ford and chevy. I can go to just about any swap meet and find a bell housing and flywheel for 50 bucks. I have my choice of headers and intakes. Complete rebuild kits are cheaper than a Rover 4.6 core. You can buy new aluminum heads for less than what it costs to have a set of Rover heads rebuilt with bigger valves and port matching.
 
Which was sort of my point.

I have a TR6 with a modded 'rumf engine that's just sitting taking up space in the garage because I don't have time to tune the efi conversion. You don't want to know what that cost, but let's just say that for about the cost of the pistons and rods I could have a working rebuilt 300+hp 302 (check out Ebay if you doubt me, start with https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-302-...emZ120152035858 as an example).

That, a $1000 rust free TR7, a T5 plus a couple more k for conversion parts doesn't sound too bad for a toy that has some get up and go. With TR8s up over 10k for a clean example, half that for a runner with pep doesn't seem so bad.

TR7s are practically worthless, so I don't feel bad about chopping one about. The only other factor here is the time, which is at a premium...
 
Unless you're looking for more than 300hp, just go with the BPOR. Especially if you have to pay someone to do the work for you, it will be cheaper in the long run. Fabrication is time consuming and expensive to do an out of the norm swap.

Please don't use an iron block V8. I did on my first TR7 when I was 15 with a 305HO and it turned the TR into a nose heavy straight line car.

The LS chevy is a great option for 300HP or better but can be pricey upon initial purchase of the engine, trans, harness and ECU.

One of my first ideas for my project was the LS1 but ultimately decided in favor of the Rotary turbo mainly because it's unusual and easy to make 300HP on a stock block and relatively lightweight and can turn 8000 rpms all day long.

One of the posters mentioned excessive HP and traction (putting the power to the ground), while this is a good argument it's also subject to when you want the power put to the ground. If you care about 1st-3rd drag racing, it's very important but where I love excessive power is in the higher range of the box 3rd-5/6th gear. Nailing the throttle in 3rd gear at say 70mph with mucho HP will pin you in the seat but much less likely to spin than in 2nd gear at 30mph. Depends on what floats your boat. Personally I like high speed acceleration where this idea is much less of an issue.

To sum up. Go with a well thought BPOR if someonelse is being paid to do it. Go with a kickass all aluminum Chevy if you can do the work yourself.
 
Just drop a little Buick V6 in it, you can turbo it or supercharge it if you want 2. It fits good and runs very good. you can buy all parts needed to convert from Johns cars in Dallas. Check out my ride, it has a 1980 Buick V6 in it.
 
Are there are more 7's and 8's in TN. than anywhere?
 
I've owned 3 wedges. A junky Tr7 was my first car when I turned 16 back in 1986. I purchased A Tr7 with a 289 stuffed in it about 3 years ago. It was a fixed head coup with no Air Coditioning which sucks in Arizona. I Finally purchased a TR8 two weeks ago. The engine that has been heavily modified and now displaces 5 litres and pushes 359 hp.

I advise you take the easiest road to reliability. I recomend doing an engine conversion that others have done so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. If not the Rover/buick 3.5 litre or maybe a 3.9 that can be found on ebay then I would choose the Buick swap via John's Cars inc. You can acutally drop in the turbo-charged engine from the Buick Regal Grand National into the TR7 to get freakish all the hp you can use. Check out this link https://www.johnscars.com/tr7.html

Have Fun
 
There's lots of focus among Wedge enthusiasts to get that V/8 power under the hood. However, cramming the V/8 into the TR7 introduces a big, negative factor: WEIGHT.

I completely understand the "need" for the V/8, but, remember that a whole lot of power and torque can be had from very small, souped-up four cylinder engines nowadays. It's pretty easy to get 200-250 HP AND reliability from modern 4 bangers with turbo or supercharged systems. Such engines can weigh hundreds of pounds less than a V/8 with all the trimmings. Hundreds!

The weight difference between the souped 4 and the V/8 practically makes up for the "loss" of HP and torque in a V/8 project.

The choices are almost endless for powerful 4 cylinder engines. For example, my MINI has a supercharged 1600CC four that produces about 180 BHP: that's 180 HP at the front wheels (and it averages 32MPG)! The TR7 weighs less than the MINI, also. And, the 1.6L engine weighs about one-third the weight of a Ford 302!

Think about the <u>handling</u>, fuel economy, etc., etc.

But, sometimes you just gotta have that V/8 power and nothing else will do.

Unless . . . /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif
 
vagt6 said:
Such engines can weigh hundreds of pounds less than a V/8 with all the trimmings. Hundreds!

The weight difference between the souped 4 and the V/8 practically makes up for the "loss" of HP and torque in a V/8 project.
Click to expand...

Generally, you're right, Mark. But the Rover V8 weighs a little over 300 lbs. Handling doesn't suffer at all, and the power output range is very broad; lots of go-fast goodies available. And it's hard to beat its sound!

Here's a great article on the development of the GM/Rover V8:

https://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?engineroverv8f.htm
 
I think one thing allot of guys forget to metion is that parts are readily available for the Rover. Depending what you are needing you can go to Advanced Auto get nothing for a Rover 3.5, but reference a 63 Pontiac with a 215 they are all there. Now not all the parts (ie the heads on the Pontiac and Olds and Buick were different depending on compression, turbo or supercharging) but the vast majority can be piked up that way.

I just see so few negatives on the Rover unless you want 400 horsepower but then I want to see you try to use it all
 
That said - a small light high revving engine could be cool as well....

But from a plug and play point of view I think the Rover v8 is a good way to go since it is very well supported and documented.
 
There are quite a few TR7's running around with both Ford and Chevy V8s. The main problem with the 302 is that it is a 60 degree V8.

Not so...all Ford V-8's are 90 degree...the 2.8 to 4.0 V-6's are 60 degree engines.
 
Generally, you're right, Mark. But the Rover V8 weighs a little over 300 lbs. Handling doesn't suffer at all, and the power output range is very broad; lots of go-fast goodies available. And it's hard to beat its sound!

Thanks, Mickey. I thought the Rover weighs a little more than 300, but it is aluminum (that's al-U-min-ium).

If it were my conversion, I'd go with the Rover/Buick V/8 if for nothing else but originality. It's relatively cheap, easy to modify, plenty of aftermarket support, and of course, original to the marque.

And you're right, there's nothing like that V/8 growl!
 
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