TR6 TR6 Engine rebuild and getting uneasy feelings

[hondo402000]

Ok, I have purchased all my parts for my TR6 engine rebuild coming up this fall, I have talked to and plan on sending my engine to a guy that I talked to on the phone. I also solicited a quote from another guy recommended as a great rebuilder too for British engines. And I got a reply that he will no longer use customer supplied parts( one reason I guess is he makes his parts too) but one thing he said was the quality of JE pistons is slipping and you have to file the rings quite a bit to get the right end gap(I assume you have to do that anyway)and guess what I bought JE piston, so a little more labor to get the gaps right. he did say carrilo rod are good just over priced, any cams that are purchased can have as much as 12 degree duration difference( how you measure that I have no Idea) and the retaining groove in the camshaft is suppose to be 0.185-0.187 wide and new cams are 0.189 to 191 and the thrust plate sold are 0.175 to 0.177 and suppose to be 0.181 thick. I will check on that and then the teflon valve stem seals suck but those were cheap and can purchase others. and the lifter problem always comes up and I bought the HD nitrited lifter from another source good, bad who knows, once you check for hardness the lifter is usless, So now I am getting an uneasy feeling about this rebuild, ( not about the guy I am planning on doing the work) but about parts and the quality

 

[DNK]

Saw on the news last night,Hondo, the sky was falling too.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

On-scene reports at 11 as the sky is expected to hit the ground.

 

[hondo402000]

well I thought I felt something.. Well when you spend 5K on parts and possibly 5K more on labor, dont you really want to get it done right???

Hondo

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Hondo -

Have you given any thought to doing the rebuild yourself? Find a good machine shop to check everything out and balance the crank, etc. One way to that ensure it's done right, plus you get the added benefit of saying, "I did that!"

Oh, and pay no attention to those two overly-sensitive guys above... :smirk:

 

[poolboy]

Sounds like kind of a snob, to me, as if other mechanics have their engines fly apart before they get broke in.
These aren't Ferrari engines, but a basic work horse of an engine, simple in design. Kinda like the one in my Mom's 52 Chevy.

 

[hondo402000]

well he told me to send him a list of parts and from who they were purchased and he would make his recommendation, I understand his point of view, funny how the parts suppliers never get the bad rap but the guy building the engine does, you usually dont say hey i got the camshaft and pistons from XYZ but you say so n so rebuild my engine and the camshafts worn out in 2000 miles. Wasnt the builders fault the camshaft cam from India and was made of material as soft as copper

Hondo

 

[TR3driver]

And indeed, poor quality replacement parts has become a recurring theme. Even TRactor motor rebuilders have resorted to only buying parts from certain, "known to be good" sources.

Greg Solow (The Engine Room, a well respected LBC engine builder in CA) once wrote that he has every new lifter tested for hardness, and finds one or two bad ones in every batch.

Some suppliers have gotten a bad reputation, but Basil frowns on such discussions on BCF. And honestly, things change rapidly, so what was true a few years ago may not be true today. It's not at all uncommon for a single run of parts to be defective in some fashion that is not detected until they are out in the market; but the very next run may be fine. I had that experience just last year, but when I pointed out the problem, TRF discovered that the entire batch was defective, and promptly shipped me the last of the previous batch.

 

[poolboy]

Well, in a way, I can see his point. If he's going to stand behind the rebuild for 5-10 thousand miles, having him supply the parts does put the entire monkey on his back, no if and or maybe. Kind of eliminates any "out" by placing the blame on a so called defective part.
As far as his preference goes, if he feels that strongly and he has the cofidence in his opinion and he'll back it up with warranty, then why not ?

 

[Monkeywrench]

The race car I've worked on has blown a lot of motors up (usually at the worst of times), because of parts that we later found out weren't of good quality. I'd like to think the car I crew on is pushing the boundaries as far as the 4cyl TR motors go, and parts that are holding up for most everyone else, won't, when they decide to do the same.

I wouldn't base the quality of JE on their supplied ring gaps. If anything, they probably got too many returns on them being too big, so they are supplying them tighter and letting the engine builder decide what he wants.

Basically, if you're buying new parts, go with good American built parts from reputable racing suppliers.

 

[DNK]

Sounds like kind of a snob, to me, as if other mechanics have their engines fly apart before they get broke in.
These aren't Ferrari engines, but a basic work horse of an engine, simple in design. Kinda like the one in my Mom's 52 Chevy.

Sorry, I f I came off a little brunt.
I was kind of expressing what Ken says above.
But I understand using other peoples parts.

 

[Brosky]

Hondo, was this my machine shop rebuilder who said this?

 

[smaceng]

What about asking/having Hap give his opinion. No interest, just trying to help.
Scott in CA

 

[hondo402000]

Hey Paul no it was not your guy, he has no problem with what I am sending, just checking around and seeing whats out there

Hondo

 

[suggs]

The race car I've worked on has blown a lot of motors up (usually at the worst of times), because of parts that we later found out weren't of good quality.

Basically, if you're buying new parts, go with good American built parts from reputable racing suppliers.

Why???
Most of them are made in Argentina anyway.

And what on earth gives you to the right to say parts made in the EU are no good?
Mahle's pistons are FAR better than US ones and are made in Germany.

They actually supply them for F1 engines which are rev limited to 18000rpm and are doing more than 300bhp/L.

I actually manufacture a lot of parts in the UK, and Switzerland and I hope your ideas are not taken as "recieved wisdom" by anyone else.

I actually MAKE steel cams and followers, why would you want to use cast iron stuff in a proper race motor anyway?

 

[Monkeywrench]

We've gotten readily available parts from the UK that turned out to be junk metal. Granted you can get junk metal here, or anywhere. So you're right, I retract my statement. The point is, stick with a reputable racing parts manufacture, or have it custom made with known good metal.

You're right, almost all of your valve blanks are coming from Argentina. For those who are curious, you can google around and there is a pretty extensive list of where aftermarket parts are coming from.

"I actually MAKE steel cams and followers, why would you want to use cast iron stuff in a proper race motor anyway?"

You don't. We're using steel lifters, but all the new blanks for the 4cyl TR camshafts have the timing gear machined all wrong. If you're running a dry sump and a crank trigger ignition, then great, we can't per rules. Other than us, I don't think people are pushing their 4cyl TR motors to the point where they want to, or need to justify a billet, and it's too cost prohibitive to do it alone.

 

[suggs]

You're right, almost all of your valve blanks are coming from Argentina.

You don't. We're using steel lifters, but all the new blanks for the 4cyl TR camshafts have the timing gear machined all wrong.

I don't think people are pushing their 4cyl TR motors to the point where they want to, or need to justify a billet, and it's too cost prohibitive to do it alone.

Who says MY valves are made in Argentina? You?

Mine are made in the UK by the same people who made all Cosworth's F1 valves.
as for, who says billet cams are prohibitively expensive??

TBH steel cams made in the UK, (for my Jag, which has 3 times as many lobes as yours) were to my mind a totally unbeatable price, and I've seen good quality cams made on CNC in Belgium as one offs for not too much.

I would never use a cast iron cam in the place of a properly made nitrided EN40B cam, there's just no comparison.

I reckon a pushrod engine at 7500-8000rpm (with those whopping heavy old valves) puts a huge amount more lobe stress on than my 4V engine at 9000 & 0.510" lift, just look at the valve spring pressures you're having to use!

 

[Monkeywrench]

You're right, almost all of your valve blanks are coming from Argentina.

You don't. We're using steel lifters, but all the new blanks for the 4cyl TR camshafts have the timing gear machined all wrong.

I don't think people are pushing their 4cyl TR motors to the point where they want to, or need to justify a billet, and it's too cost prohibitive to do it alone.

Who says MY valves are made in Argentina? You?

Mine are made in the UK by the same people who made all Cosworth's F1 valves.
as for, who says billet cams are prohibitively expensive??

TBH steel cams made in the UK, (for my Jag, which has 3 times as many lobes as yours) were to my mind a totally unbeatable price, and I've seen good quality cams made on CNC in Belgium as one offs for not too much.

I would never use a cast iron cam in the place of a properly made nitrided EN40B cam, there's just no comparison.

I reckon a pushrod engine at 7500-8000rpm (with those whopping heavy old valves) puts a huge amount more lobe stress on than my 4V engine at 9000 & 0.510" lift, just look at the valve spring pressures you're having to use!

<facepalm>

"ALMOST ALL" that's not everyone.

"YOUR" is a general statement that encompasses everybody. Is it lazy for me to use it? Sure. Though the last time I checked, I wasn't writing a peer reviewed paper.

"I reckon a pushrod engine at 7500-8000rpm (with those whopping heavy old valves) puts a huge amount more lobe stress on than my 4V engine at 9000 & 0.510" lift, just look at the valve spring pressures you're having to use!"

Without a doubt.

"billet cams are prohibitively expensive??"

Give me a source then.

 

[poolboy]

I don't think he'll be answering.

 

[SkinnedKnuckles]

I remember that guy - pops up about once a year, stirs things up, then vanishes...