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TR6 TR6 Complete Restore

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wmotter

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I acquired a TR6 last winter while I was restoring an MGB. I have finished the B and am now looking at the 6. It is a mess, needs a total body off restore. I have been reading a lot of books on it and am at the point where I am ready to begin. I did not do any body work on the B and have no experience with welding, body work, etc. I enjoy doing things that cost me a lot of money and pain as well as depression and anxiety so I figure I am in the ball park with this 6.

Anyway, the car needs new floor pans, door sills, and bulkhead panels (the posts look good). One of the books I have is about restoring Tr's and suggests that I can cut the body in two to take it off the frame since I have to replace the floor panels and sills. As much as I would like to do that, I am concerned about lining everything back up when I put it back together. Any suggesstions?

Also, I am from Gaithersburg, MD and frequent a Britisn car shop called Mt. Joy's. They are great, but a bit far away for me. Does anyone know of someone in the Gaithersburg area that has experience in this kind of stuff? I am looking to form a partnership where I can get advice in return for purchasing parts/services.

Any help, resources, etc would be greatly appreciated.

I forsee many questions of low intelligence value in the future and understand this is a great forum for that since I am told the members are tolerant of that stuff. I really like tinkering with British cars and look forward to talking to others about them (my first car in high school was a rusted out 66 MGB).

Cheers
 
I am in the same boat as you. Six months ago I purchased a dented, rusted, half primed TR6 project that a co-worker gave up on. I'm no expert here, this being my first frame off restoration. I've read and others have recommended that you should keep the body on the frame while you do bodywork, as it fascilitates alignment. Right now I'm in the middle of replacing the passenger sill and patching the bottom of the A post so that I will be able to put in a new floor pan.
 
Welcome to the list. You appear to have the correct sense of humor for English car ownership. First I would vist vtr.org and find a club you area for assitance. I think I saw a listing for Maryland TRs. I am not sure where Gaithersburg is but it cant be too far from PA, and you can always visit with my club, Delvaltrs.org.

Also, I have not heard of cutting the car inb half to restore it. This doesn't make sense to me. Which book did you find this in? I have Roger Williams guide to restoring TR250/6 and it tells you how to remove the body for doing work on the frame as needed. Chopping the car in half sounds like an odd procedure, but I may just not be familiar with it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the car needs new floor pans, door sills, and bulkhead panels (the posts look good). One of the books I have is about restoring Tr's and suggests that I can cut the body in two to take it off the frame since I have to replace the floor panels and sills. As much as I would like to do that, I am concerned about lining everything back up when I put it back together. Any suggesstions?


[/ QUOTE ]
One suggestion: don't follow that suggestion! I have heard of folks doing this with the earlier TR2/3/3A cars, though. (If you're really interested, I can put you in touch with someone who had this done on her TR3A. Only problem was, the shop goofed in rejoining the two halves, and the tub came out too short for the doors. Needless to say it had to be redone.

What a lot of folks will do is one corner or one section of the car at a time, keeping the rest together and bolted to the chassis. This helps keep things aligned better, and when you're done with basic rust repair you've got a body that will hold up better while being removed from the chassis for final repairs and refinishing.
 
Since I am also starting some panel repair/replacement on my wife's Spitfire, I was asking some of the same questions that you are.
I did some reasearch on the halving technique and I have read several cries of woe.
Most all of the people expressing good experiences with panel repair/replacement left their tubs attached to the frame to help maintain alignment.

This just makes sense to me.

Frame on panel repair replacement is the way to go.
 
Very interested in your progress; I'm dragging home a 1975 TR6 ("ran when parked" 5 years ago),early next week, along w/ a 1971 parts car. Will try to make one out of two.
Was thinking about a frame off approach but now will do that as a last resort. Live in Winchester, VA and found this car 5 miles from my house after looking everywhere within a 100 mile radius for 2 months.
Need to sell my resurrected Spitfire to make room for this new project.
 
Hello all,

Don't be afraid to take the body off the frame. Removing the body from the frame is highly advantageous and not all that difficult. Removing the bolts that hold the body on the frame will likley be one of the hardest parts (once you have all the correct components removed, i.e engine and trans, steering column, brake lines and handbrake cables, and anything that goes from teh body to the frame. The more you remove before separating the two the easier it is, not only because the shell will weigh less but because there will be no unforeseen gizmos holding the two together).

And aligning everything back up is NOT overly difficult. A washer here or there and Voila. Fitment of body panels is generally not a big problem if you are removing and replacing the ones that were originally on the car (or are using other original panels). A little pulling and tugging but nothing that should scare you away from doing it.

The advantages are great. Of course if you are replacing any parts that need to be welded into the main body tub (id floors, sills, inner rockers, etc) you want to do that welding while the body is attached to the frame, to ensure alignment. Then the body tub can be removed in order to strip and sand and prime and paint everything. And don't forget to undercoat it at that time too. You can get into areas where you won't be able to get once it is back on the frame.

Time and patience will overcome fear every time.
 
I don't have the book name and author that suggested cutting in half but it is the one that addresses TR250s, 4s, and 6s. I believe it is fairly well known (has a red cover with a red 250 I believe (could be a TR4) on the front) I will look up at home tonight.

I am glad I posted to this. It sounds like not cutting the tub in half is the way to go. A couple of things about the frame. The breast plate is completely rusted through but the frame looks to be very solid but since the breast plate is gone I wonder if that is a good conclusion. Also, I have read about 'crabbing' where the back of the car frame comes down (??) and you can tell by looking at the doors in relation to the back wings. There is a wider gap at the top between door and wing than at the bottom. I would say the variance is no more than a 1/4 of an inch between the top and bottom. Given that information does it make sense to work on the tub before getting to the frame? Finally, do the back outside wings bolt off? I see the bolts inside the trunk but can't get a definitively answer.

Thanks again for all the feedback. I am getting pumped to start bending some metal and really screwing things up.
 
SixtynineTR6 is right on. I originally purchased my '71 with the thoughts of fix just this and that, but you will always be awaiting the next strange noise or shorted circuit. I pulled the car completely apart and have the tub sitting atop a rolling dolly and the frame, suspension etc. are being repaired/repainted while the engine is out for rebuild. Just have lots of boxes and ziploc bags to tag and store all the parts. You will however be amazed at how familiar every little part becomes and how well you know YOUR car when complete.
 
Hi and welcome,

Hey, there are no "low intelligence value" questions! The dumb thing would be not asking questions first!

I think the book you are looking for is one of Roger Williams' "Restoring Triumph..." series. Check Amazon, new or used, generally the best prices are there. I've not got his book pertaining to the 6-cylinder TRs, but the TR4-4A book I do have gives extensive info on body restoration. He has also written a companion series "Improving Triumph..." that spends more time on performance mods.

I can tell you, Williams does *not* advocate cutting the body in half, at least in the TR4/4A book I've got. He discusses it as one possible option and gives some pointers when it might be done and when it can be avoided.

You've recently done another project and are well-versed in the pain, cost and suffering part of it, so no need to warn you.

The TRs through the 6 are relatively easy to work on, probably easier than the B since that's a uni-body car.
All the exterior TR panels such as fenders, hood and trunk lid are designed to be easily removed (once any rusty fittings are overcome).

And, yes, you can lift the body off the frame relatively quickly and easily. Replacement panels are easily obtained through the major LBC vendors, if needed. However, I feel floor and sills, in particular, are most easily replaced with the body on the frame. In fact, I'd call this even more essential on TR4A IRS and later TRs. The frame acts as a jig such as would have been used when it was originally built, and makes fitting the new welded-in panels easier and more precise.

The only caveat I'd mention is that the frame must first be checked for squareness and solidity. You don't want to fit body panels to a sagged or tweaked frame. That's particularly true of an IRS model such as the TR6, which can get "humped" in the middle and cause a lot of fitting problems.

It might be most expedient to temporarily lift the body off the frame; check, straighten, repair and reinforce the frame as needed; then reinstall the body for its panel work. In fact, on IRS cars it is important that the body be close to normal weight and sitting fully on its suspension for panel fitting. There is enough flex in the body and frame to make a difference. TR4 and earlier non-IRS cars are quite different.

If an initial body lift is done to check and repair the frame, it might be wise to leave the final finishing of the chassis until the second time around. A finished frame and chassis can easily get marred by welding around it, or overspray from primer, etc. Plus, work is slower because extra care must be taken around the finished pieces.

Once the body is back on the frame, the best procedure would be to remove a particular panel, fit the new one, tack weld it in place, then go back and finish welding it carefully. The only exception might be if an adjacent panel will also be replaced. Then I'd suggest just skipping finish-welding that side, but leave it temporarily tack welded. A key reason to leave the body on the frame as long as possible and remove/replace one panel at a time is that heating/cooling from welding can quickly warp thin steel body panels.

I wouldn't cut the car in half unless absolutely necessary. That's most likely just making more work for yourself putting it back together. Yes, it can be done. But, a lot of measuring before disassembly and even more while reassembling will be critical to getting good fit. Seems to me much, much easier to just remove/replace one panel at a time.

I'm not sure what you are refering to as a "bulkhead": firewall? footwells? battery box?

You sound like you are formulatinig a plan of action, a sequence of how parts will be replaced, and getting some idea what all needs to be removed to get the space to work. Williams' book will help you decide.

I suggest you keep every part you remove until the job is complete, so that you can compare new parts, reference the old ones.

TRs are "built around their doors", you'll find. So, that's usually the starting point. After the doors, the sills, rockers, A and B-posts are corrected as needed. Then the scuttle/firewall/footwells and floors. The plan of attack changes depending upon what's needed.

You say your posts are in good shape and I hope that's true. But, if sills and rockers need replacement, it's really likely there may be an unpleasant surprise waiting inside the B-posts, in particular. These usually rust from the inside out. Have you removed the glued-on vinyl from the inside of the B-post, near the floor? That's usually where corrosion problems first show up. It also can't be seen from the outside until the fender is removed. The good news is that a batch repair is usually easy on the base of a B-post, since most of it is well-hidden by vinyl or the fender.

When the body is removed from the frame for finish work, it's important to cross-brace the doors. Personally, I think the best way to do this is to bolt a brace from the hoodstick mountings to the windhshield frame bracket mountings under the dash, and then run at least one solid brace across the car, too. This makes it possible to refit the doors temporarily. Which needs to be done often as sills, rockers and fenders are being worked on, to check the fit. Some folks tack weld the braces in place, which is good, too. But, a couple illustrations in Williams' books show those braces inside the door area, preventing doors from being test fitted. To me, that seems a bad idea.

If you haven't welded or done body work before, the internal tub is a good place to learn, because much of it is hidden under trim and outer panels. However, I'd always recommend considering taking some classes at a local community college, to make the learning curve shorter and to be sure you are fully aware of all safety concerns.

Have fun and keep us posted about your progress!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
So you recommend taking the body off without any work and working the frame (if it needs it) first? I understand about tack welding bracing for the door openings (doors off) and such to firm up the body before lifting the body. With rotted out floors and sills will the body hold together?
 
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