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Just received my Clevite 77 bearings today and was dissapointed to see they are the Glacier bearings that have been packaged in a Clevite 77 box. Are theese the same as the old Clevite Bearings and if not what is the best bearing to use? The box says Clevite 77 but then shows the Glacier/ Vandervell logo---by Dana Corporation, made in the U.K. Mains have a part #MS-1112p. My price for the mains was $88
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TR6 tr6 bearings--whats best----Clevite or----?
- Thread starter ALLAN
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swift6
Yoda
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If they are true vandervells then they should be good. Vandervell was supplied as OEM for many years. However, I think that the name was bought a few years ago so I'm not sure that those would be true vandervells. Make good friends with a knowledgable machinist. They can provide all sorts of good advice or access to bearing suppliers etc...
Worked for me.
Worked for me.
I know theese are not the original Vandervells although I do have some originals for my rod bearings. but I do wonder if theese Clevites are any good and are made of the trimetal like the old Clevites and Vandervells. From What I can tell the choices of bearings now are---King---Glacier--or the Clevites (Glacier/Vandervell--Dana Corp.)that I have. So--which ones have proved themselves??????
Allan, Unfortunately Dana Corp. has bought out every other major shell bearing manufacturer over the last two decades. I think the tin aluminum alloy sold under a couple of names is all you can now get. It is very durable and can put up with dirty, worn out oils very well, but is very unforgiving if a dirt or metal particle is flowing past. It will scratch the journal rather than imbed itself in the bearing material like the old VP trimetal. Really clean that block, etc. out well before reassembly. Good luck.
Tom Lains
Tom Lains
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Still hoping to get an experienced recomendation on the current bearings available also if anyone knows if the Cevite/vandervell(Dana) bearing is a true trimental?? One other question----can an oversize thrust bearing be used on one side to get the proper clearance or do you have to use a matched set? Thanks
Still hoping to get an experienced recomendation on the current bearings available also if anyone knows if the Cevite/vandervell(Dana) bearing is a true trimental?? One other question----can an oversize thrust bearing be used on one side to get the proper clearance or do you have to use a matched set? Thanks
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Allan, sorry I can't answer your bearing material question, but mixing thrust washer sizes is common practice to obtain proper crank end float.
I have run the Clevite bearings in a race 1500 engine with no problems or abnormal wear noted, but my bearings typically get changed after 10 hours or so of run time.
Jeff
Allan, sorry I can't answer your bearing material question, but mixing thrust washer sizes is common practice to obtain proper crank end float.
I have run the Clevite bearings in a race 1500 engine with no problems or abnormal wear noted, but my bearings typically get changed after 10 hours or so of run time.
Jeff
Matthew E. Herd
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Jeff, a quick question for you ...
I'm sorry this is somewhat unrelated to bearings, specifically.
I know that you ran your 1500 to 7400ish RPM while road racing, with regular bearing service. I am wondering about safe limits for crankshaft life (assuming the bearings are changed as needed). Do you have a service life on your race crankshaft?
My little 1500 just got a valve guide replaced, valve seals installed (this wasn't done at the time of rebuild), and a fresh surface cut on the head after I blew a head gasket. Since the pan can be dropped in a 1500 Midget, I plan on checking/servicing the rods and mains (as well as thrust washers) this winter before the next autocross season starts up. The piston bores look fine after approximately 3000 miles and 12 (or so) autocrosses. The courses and my stock gearing generally result in RPM's in the neighborhood of 6500, with the possibility of achieving 7000 now and again. In your experience, should I be concerned about crankshaft/rod failure?
Jeff, a quick question for you ...
I'm sorry this is somewhat unrelated to bearings, specifically.
I know that you ran your 1500 to 7400ish RPM while road racing, with regular bearing service. I am wondering about safe limits for crankshaft life (assuming the bearings are changed as needed). Do you have a service life on your race crankshaft?
My little 1500 just got a valve guide replaced, valve seals installed (this wasn't done at the time of rebuild), and a fresh surface cut on the head after I blew a head gasket. Since the pan can be dropped in a 1500 Midget, I plan on checking/servicing the rods and mains (as well as thrust washers) this winter before the next autocross season starts up. The piston bores look fine after approximately 3000 miles and 12 (or so) autocrosses. The courses and my stock gearing generally result in RPM's in the neighborhood of 6500, with the possibility of achieving 7000 now and again. In your experience, should I be concerned about crankshaft/rod failure?
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Matt, I never had a crank problem, despite regular trips to 7650 RPM, and occasional "oops" journeys over 8000. I always cross drilled and nitrided my cranks, and had them Mangnfluxed during the off season rebuild. In addition, I ran Carillo rods, which are pretty bulletproof.
Having said that, the new owner of the Spit managed to overheat it through his own negligence,and blow a rod through the side of the block. Oddly enough, the crank was salvagable.
The only lower end problem I ever had with the thing was spinning a rod bearing on the cool-down lap of the last race of the season, after 23.9 total hours of run time. Didn't hurt anything there, either, (other than my pride at being snookered out of my victory lap).
I'd say with proper preparation, the cranks are pretty tough items.
I do recommend a center main cap reinforcement strap though.
Jeff
Matt, I never had a crank problem, despite regular trips to 7650 RPM, and occasional "oops" journeys over 8000. I always cross drilled and nitrided my cranks, and had them Mangnfluxed during the off season rebuild. In addition, I ran Carillo rods, which are pretty bulletproof.
Having said that, the new owner of the Spit managed to overheat it through his own negligence,and blow a rod through the side of the block. Oddly enough, the crank was salvagable.
The only lower end problem I ever had with the thing was spinning a rod bearing on the cool-down lap of the last race of the season, after 23.9 total hours of run time. Didn't hurt anything there, either, (other than my pride at being snookered out of my victory lap).
I'd say with proper preparation, the cranks are pretty tough items.
I do recommend a center main cap reinforcement strap though.
Jeff
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Matt, thanks for your info, but this last question and answer is out of context with my post--question and car model. I think it is proper to make a new post and/or private message when going off topic. Again I ask from any knowlegable person--what is the best proven bearing and is the new clevite/vandervell a true trimetal?? thanks
Matt, thanks for your info, but this last question and answer is out of context with my post--question and car model. I think it is proper to make a new post and/or private message when going off topic. Again I ask from any knowlegable person--what is the best proven bearing and is the new clevite/vandervell a true trimetal?? thanks
G
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Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Allan,
Give Dave at The Roadster Factory a call on their tech line (after 12:30 EST) at 814-446-4491. Dave knows about everything Triumph and can answer your questions about bearings. But I am almost sure that there are no more tri-metal bearings anymore. Dave can at least give you good solid imput onto bearing choice. He will be honest and tell you what is the best choice for you. Tell him that "Bill from Louisiana" said to call.
Bill, from Louisiana
Allan,
Give Dave at The Roadster Factory a call on their tech line (after 12:30 EST) at 814-446-4491. Dave knows about everything Triumph and can answer your questions about bearings. But I am almost sure that there are no more tri-metal bearings anymore. Dave can at least give you good solid imput onto bearing choice. He will be honest and tell you what is the best choice for you. Tell him that "Bill from Louisiana" said to call.
Bill, from Louisiana
Offline
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
[ QUOTE ]
Matt, thanks for your info, but this last question and answer is out of context with my post. Again I ask from any knowlegable person--what is the best proven bearing and is the new clevite/vandervell a true trimetal?? thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Allan,
I sincerely hope that this info IS in context with your original question. If you get upset everytime something gets off topic here, you will surely be unhappy much of the time.
It appears that Dana - Clevite 77 has four different series of bearings. The 77V, 77H, 77P, & 77R. There are different TriMetal designs in the 77 series. I have experience with only the 77R series & no complaints. It appears that the Clevite 77 V series is a duplication of the Vandervell bearing. Whether it is available for your engine or not is another matter.
Below info is quoted from Dana - Clevite
D
-----------------------------
Clevite/77 Engine Bearings -- V-Series
Introducing the latest addition to the Clevite 77® performance bearing line, the "V" series bearing. Because life on the track can be tough, it's what's on the inside that counts. These bearings feature a Tri-Metal™ cast copper-lead construction with a unique lead-indium overlay. Our cast copper-lead bearing features an intermediate layer with a steel back which offers the strongest foundation available for a performance bearing. Combine this with the unique lead-indium overlay which offers exceptional fatigue strength, durability, lubricity and conformability, you end up with one of the finest performance engine bearings available in the world today. The bearing construction is such that it resists flaking and peeling under high-load, high-RPM conditions. The "V" series bearing is based on the popular Vanderveil design used with great success in Formula One, Indy Car, NASCAR and NHRA racing. The actual Vanderveil prints and dimensions were used to manufacture the "V" series bearings.
So when you are looking for a tough durable performance bearing, look no further than the Clevite 77 "V" series.
NOTE: These bearings do not have dowel holes or oversize chamfers.
Clevite/77 Engine Bearings -- H-Series Race
These bearings were developed primarily for use in NASCAR type racing but are suitable for all types of competition engines. H bearings have a medium level eccentricity. They feature a high crush capacity. Enlarged chamfers for greater crankshaft fillet clearance. These bearings are made w/o flash plating for better seating. Use H bearings w/aftermarket performance steel crankshafts that have oversize fillets & where engines run in medium to high rpm range. If you buy a new crank with .125 radii these bearings are a must for rod clearances.
Clevite/77P Engine Bearings - Performance
The P-Series bearings is Clevite's performance series. Since their development in 1929 these bearings have set the standards that other bearings copy. These bearings are designed to provide winning results, and are used in INDY, NASCAR, ARSA, NHRA and IHRA.
CLEVITE 77R
Performance Engine Bearings
Since our development of the first precision insert-type bearing in 1929, Clevite 77 engine bearings have set the pace for engineering quality. Clevite 77 engine bearings are built above industry standards for strength and durability –even exceeding the highest standards set by Heavy Duty engine manufacturers. The majority of Clevite 77 engine bearings utilize a superior TriMetal™ design first developed by Clevite 50 years ago and perfected over time. This design incorporates the strength of a copper-lead alloy layer on a precision steel back and finally, a precision electroplated white metal "babbitt" surface layer. TriMetal is an ideal design, producing a degree of conformability, embedability, slipperiness and fatigue resistance, not found in many original equipment and competitive bi-metal bearings.
All Clevite 77 Engine Bearings manufactured by us are color coded for quick and positive identification of undersizes. The possibility of confusion or errors in installation is virtually eliminated by checking the color code on the side of each bearing.
----------------------
D
[ QUOTE ]
Matt, thanks for your info, but this last question and answer is out of context with my post. Again I ask from any knowlegable person--what is the best proven bearing and is the new clevite/vandervell a true trimetal?? thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Allan,
I sincerely hope that this info IS in context with your original question. If you get upset everytime something gets off topic here, you will surely be unhappy much of the time.
It appears that Dana - Clevite 77 has four different series of bearings. The 77V, 77H, 77P, & 77R. There are different TriMetal designs in the 77 series. I have experience with only the 77R series & no complaints. It appears that the Clevite 77 V series is a duplication of the Vandervell bearing. Whether it is available for your engine or not is another matter.
Below info is quoted from Dana - Clevite
D
-----------------------------
Clevite/77 Engine Bearings -- V-Series
Introducing the latest addition to the Clevite 77® performance bearing line, the "V" series bearing. Because life on the track can be tough, it's what's on the inside that counts. These bearings feature a Tri-Metal™ cast copper-lead construction with a unique lead-indium overlay. Our cast copper-lead bearing features an intermediate layer with a steel back which offers the strongest foundation available for a performance bearing. Combine this with the unique lead-indium overlay which offers exceptional fatigue strength, durability, lubricity and conformability, you end up with one of the finest performance engine bearings available in the world today. The bearing construction is such that it resists flaking and peeling under high-load, high-RPM conditions. The "V" series bearing is based on the popular Vanderveil design used with great success in Formula One, Indy Car, NASCAR and NHRA racing. The actual Vanderveil prints and dimensions were used to manufacture the "V" series bearings.
So when you are looking for a tough durable performance bearing, look no further than the Clevite 77 "V" series.
NOTE: These bearings do not have dowel holes or oversize chamfers.
Clevite/77 Engine Bearings -- H-Series Race
These bearings were developed primarily for use in NASCAR type racing but are suitable for all types of competition engines. H bearings have a medium level eccentricity. They feature a high crush capacity. Enlarged chamfers for greater crankshaft fillet clearance. These bearings are made w/o flash plating for better seating. Use H bearings w/aftermarket performance steel crankshafts that have oversize fillets & where engines run in medium to high rpm range. If you buy a new crank with .125 radii these bearings are a must for rod clearances.
Clevite/77P Engine Bearings - Performance
The P-Series bearings is Clevite's performance series. Since their development in 1929 these bearings have set the standards that other bearings copy. These bearings are designed to provide winning results, and are used in INDY, NASCAR, ARSA, NHRA and IHRA.
CLEVITE 77R
Performance Engine Bearings
Since our development of the first precision insert-type bearing in 1929, Clevite 77 engine bearings have set the pace for engineering quality. Clevite 77 engine bearings are built above industry standards for strength and durability –even exceeding the highest standards set by Heavy Duty engine manufacturers. The majority of Clevite 77 engine bearings utilize a superior TriMetal™ design first developed by Clevite 50 years ago and perfected over time. This design incorporates the strength of a copper-lead alloy layer on a precision steel back and finally, a precision electroplated white metal "babbitt" surface layer. TriMetal is an ideal design, producing a degree of conformability, embedability, slipperiness and fatigue resistance, not found in many original equipment and competitive bi-metal bearings.
All Clevite 77 Engine Bearings manufactured by us are color coded for quick and positive identification of undersizes. The possibility of confusion or errors in installation is virtually eliminated by checking the color code on the side of each bearing.
----------------------
D
trfourtune
Jedi Knight
Offline
Re: tr6 bearings--whats best-??
Allan,
everything i have read and researched has led me to believe that NONE of the new bearings are trimetal.I thought ONLY the old vandervell bearings were the good ones. i have Kas Kastner's book, Piggots books, Vizard's book, read all i can find (although for tr4 )and that is what i found. sometimes the originals show up on e-bay. That's where i found mine (tr4 mains).
Allan,
everything i have read and researched has led me to believe that NONE of the new bearings are trimetal.I thought ONLY the old vandervell bearings were the good ones. i have Kas Kastner's book, Piggots books, Vizard's book, read all i can find (although for tr4 )and that is what i found. sometimes the originals show up on e-bay. That's where i found mine (tr4 mains).