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TR4/4A TR4a steering shaft play

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tdskip

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Hi guys - doing (or trying to anyway) some sorting out of the '66 TR4a. Her steering shaft has vertical play, meaning you can pull the shaft up away from the rack between 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. It is not the column support under the dash, it is the actual shaft that goes into the rack housing.

All the couplers etc are tight so that isn't it.

I tried adjusting out the vertical play in the steering column shaft by moving the impact assembly right up against the column fitting. The vertical play is gone but that looks like it might result in wear. Picture below;

IMG01088-20111004-0807.jpg


Tips or ideas or cautions?
 
Sounds like you need new bushes in the steering column, especially that lower one?
 
I believe there should be a nylon washer between the impact clamp and the end of the column.
 
TR4nut said:
Sounds like you need new bushes in the steering column, especially that lower one?
Click to expand...

Hi Randy - is the in/out of the rack play not side to side. I was thinking that as well but this is different motion.
 
tdskip said:
So - once washer is installed - OK to have that fitting (#23-24) that close to the column opening?
Click to expand...

I believe so, that's how mine is.
 
Sorry, didn't catch it was in/out - can you confirm that the clamp is indeed clamping the inner column to the outer column? If that is rigid, I would take a very careful look at where your steering shaft joints the steering rack. That clamp can wear, and you might see in/out movement between the rack and the clamp on the lower shaft. If so, get it fixed, thats not a place you want to have movement!

Not sure the 4A is the same as the 4 - but on the 4 that lower joint uses a rubber doughnut (pn 32 above) - you can get rid of the whole mess and substitute a TR6 style joint.
 
Mine does that too -- specifically you can sit in the driver's seat and get about 3/32nds of movement fore & aft by pushing and pulling on the steering wheel.

Are the rest of you saying your 4/4A does not do that?

I can see where that referenced washer would protect things (and possibly prohibit movement) if the wheel were in the 'full back' position but mine never is (drove Italian cars too many years I guess).
 
I don't think I have much play, but I wouldn't argue a 1/16" or so. But when I first bought my TR4 I had more play than that, and I traced it to the lower clamp mount.
 
Thanks Randy - I checked my lower coupling is tight still and with the relocated impact clamp I don't have any more play,

Drives better too!
 
If I read this right, you are talking about the pinion shaft moving in and out of the rack housing, correct? That motion is supposed to be controlled by shims within the housing to a very small value (like .001"). But it is not what keeps the steering wheel from moving in/out.

If you are seeing 1/8" movement at the pinion, IMO there is something wrong inside the rack. Personally, I'd want to check it out before something bad happens (like whatever is broken or out of place jams the steering). Covering up the play with an external clamp sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

But perhaps I'm just misunderstanding the situation.
 
Wellsir, that comment got me to got out to the garage for a look (numbers refer to the above Moss diagram).

In my case the movement (call it 1/16") is not the pinion (43) moving in & out of the shaft but rather the adaptor (30) sliding a bit on the splined shaft of the pinion. This is just a slip fit that is secured once the clamp (22-23) is in place and tight. I am lacking the washer (21) mentioned above so it appears that the resulting gap is introducing the movement I get.

This is quite possibly my fault as I have had the steering wheel out on several occasions such as R&R of the gearbox and when you pull the steering wheel and upper column section that washer, if unattended, would just fall away.

Anyway, have ordered one from Moss as (at less than a buck) I might as well have the exact part.

Thanks for calling my attention to this missing item.
 
Geo-

That slip is what I was referring to as well - it shouldn't be there at all, and I believe it is due to wear or slight issues with part #30. Part 30 does has a fixing bolt, when tightened sufficiently no slipping should be present.

There was a fix mentioned in the UK TR Register technicalities, here's a link to the discussion but unfortunately the picture showing the proposed modification to part number 30 is not shown anymore:
TR4 clamp modification

Over time, I think there is risk with that movement that you will wear the splines too much - and that could also lead to a bad situation like Randall mentions.

Randy
 
Thanks, I follow that. I was reading the steering column removal instructions in Haynes and saw no mention of loosening the fixing bolt/pinch bolt on the bottom adaptor but those posts make it clear.
 
TR4nut said:
...That slip is what I was referring to as well - it shouldn't be there at all, and I believe it is due to wear or slight issues with part #30. Part 30 does has a fixing bolt, when tightened sufficiently no slipping should be present...
Click to expand...

Thinking about this some more... I am not convinced that the splines at the bottom of the column are supposed to be clamped tight, i.e. possibly some fore & aft movement is intended there.

Why would I think that?

1. As noted on the UK site, this slip only seems to occur on the bottom connection (pinion) though the same 'adaptor' is used on the other sections of the steering column (where clearly it does clamp tight).

2. The instructions in the manual do not mention undoing that pinch bolt to remove the column from the pinion. The instructions seem quite detailed and yet they simply say to disengage the column by sliding it upward. Granted, this is the Haynes Manual (Chap 11, Para 34.4) which is not definitive but is suggestive.

3. There are certainly several other places on the car where splines are used to connect rotating parts but fore & aft movement is desirable.

For now I am going to replace the missing washer and see what I get.
 
Geo-

Don't have the factory manual handy so can't see what they say, but I think it should be impossible to slide the clamp off the pinion unless that pinch bolt is removed - the pinion is grooved to accomdate the bolt.

Randy
 
Good point. I have factory manuals, but only for thru the 3A which is usually enough until something like this comes up.
 
Geo Hahn said:
Good point. I have factory manuals, but only for thru the 3A which is usually enough until something like this comes up.
Click to expand...
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...M0&hl=en_US

PS, there is an option to download the "original file" to your hard drive, which I recommend. Look under 'File' in the upper LH corner.

PPS, However, I do update the files from time to time with service notes, better scans, more bookmarks, etc. so it doesn't hurt to check back.
 

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