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TR4/4A TR4A Electric Fuel Pump Installation
- Thread starter PlaidMan
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Simon TR4a
Jedi Knight
Offline
I have done this on my 1965, using an inexpensive impeller pump.
This type of pump "prefers" to push rather than pull, so ideally should be mounted below the gas tank so it is primed by gravity, and have a filter between the tank and the pump. The pump cost about $75 a few years back, the filter maybe $3 or so.
Mine produces about 7psi, which is too much, and about 22 gallons per hour, more than the car will ever need. I added a low pressure regulaotor from Holley, at about $40, and am now adding a Holley gauge to allow more accurate adjustment.
(I had a terrible time at first with very rich mixture at low speeds and lean at highway speeds due to too much pressure!)
Before final installation I did a rough job with the pump under the hood on a bracket to make sure it all worked, then moved it to a mounting point on the frame just behind the rear suspension, where the pump is protected from most road grit and rocks. I led a thick gauge wire to the fuse box so the ignition switch turns the pump on and off, and the ground wire to the frame next to the pump, covering the connections with silicone for protection.
I have seen Facet or Holley reciprocating pumps used, but this seemed the simplest and least expensive solution.
Simon.
This type of pump "prefers" to push rather than pull, so ideally should be mounted below the gas tank so it is primed by gravity, and have a filter between the tank and the pump. The pump cost about $75 a few years back, the filter maybe $3 or so.
Mine produces about 7psi, which is too much, and about 22 gallons per hour, more than the car will ever need. I added a low pressure regulaotor from Holley, at about $40, and am now adding a Holley gauge to allow more accurate adjustment.
(I had a terrible time at first with very rich mixture at low speeds and lean at highway speeds due to too much pressure!)
Before final installation I did a rough job with the pump under the hood on a bracket to make sure it all worked, then moved it to a mounting point on the frame just behind the rear suspension, where the pump is protected from most road grit and rocks. I led a thick gauge wire to the fuse box so the ignition switch turns the pump on and off, and the ground wire to the frame next to the pump, covering the connections with silicone for protection.
I have seen Facet or Holley reciprocating pumps used, but this seemed the simplest and least expensive solution.
Simon.
trfourtune
Jedi Knight
Offline
simon, i've heard that the facet pumps are noisy and the holley pumps produce too much pressure(correct me if i'm wrong). i found a guy on the net(i don't recall his name or site) that swears by the carter fuel pump for webers. low pressure, high volume. some pressure regulators cut off the volume when you regulate the pressure. i don't have any experience with this but we need low pressure high flow. with efi cars they use high pressure pumps so be careful to get the correct pump.
rob
rob
Offline
Facet makes a low pressure electronic cube type pump that I've been using on my TR3 with a Holly regulator for a number of years. Although I am running Weber side drafts, the fuel pressure would also be appropriate for SUs. Electronic pumps have no points to go out nor are they affected by alcohol in gasoline. Mine is mounted under the car next to the frame near the door. I have it wired to an auxilliary fuse box fed by a relay run from the ignition switch with an additional dash switch. I can hear it with the engine off, but not with the engine idling.
If we had an oil pressure sending unit (electrical type) it would be nice to take the power from there as then if the engine died the pump wouldn't keep running. I wonder if in the aftermarket there is some type of inertia cut off which as in a modern car would have with some additional safeguard to turn the pump off. One wouldn't want that dang thing pumping away in the event of an accident.
Bob
Bob
hondo402000
Darth Vader
Offline
I also heard the carter pump is better, I purchased one for my tr6, not installed yet but the information I read sounded ok but it was a company selling it too
Alan_Myers
Luke Skywalker
Offline
Hi,
I installed a Facet solid state (the small cube type) on my TR4. It's mounted on the inboard side of the LH rear shock bracket (different from your 4A, but hopefully gives you an idea where), a location I liked since it is well below the fuel tank and outside the body work in the event of a leak due to an accident or whatever. Tucked above it, mounted on the body, is a large Fram FP-1 fuel filter (changeable cartridge). This is fed by two hoses from the fuel tank, one from the original outlet on the LH side, the other from the normally plugged drain hole on the RH side. With this setup I have no concerns about slosh uncovering the outlet during hard cornering! (Which is more likely in later cars, which did away with the baffles found inside TR4 fuel tanks.)
Another common pump location is in the corner of the spare tire well, in the trunk. This does put the system inside the car, but is no more dangerous than the fuel tank location, itself (which is better than many cars, IMHO, with it close to the rear). If installation is nicely tucked into the corner, it won't interfere with carrying a spare in the trunk. Some folks put the filter there, too, others put it under the car. Mounting in the trunk means runing hoses through two holes into and out of the trunk.
I've seen pumps located higher up on the wall or side floors of the trunk, but those are risking air getting into the pump and causing problems. As mentioned, it's important to locate below the level of the bottom of the fuel tank.
Use a rubber mounting kit with Facet ss pumps and they will not be all that noisy. Some sort of rubber mounting is useful to protect most types of elec fuel pumps from shocks, too.
I am using a relay to feed power to the fuel pump. It's also on it's own, fused circuit (might change that to a circuit breaker). In some cases, I've heard of putting a small resistor in the power lead to a fuel pump, to make it run quieter, too. Also consider - if you have other electrical loads, like a cooling fan and high power headlights or fog lights - the original generator might be underpowered with the addition of another electrical device like a fuel pump.
It's possible to run two of the small Facets in parallel, with a little extra plumbing of course, to give some reduncancy. Most other pumps are too large for this to be practical (thus there are some like the double-end SU that have built-in redundancy).
There are both aftermarket inertia switches and low oil pressure cutoffs available, that can be used separately or together for some extra margin of safety in the event of an accident. A manual fuel pump switch in the cockpit can also serve for safety, but makes a great anti-theft device, too! The inertia and oil pressure switches are available from most racing supply stores: Jegs, Summit, Pegasus, Racer's Wholesale, etc.
If it's what you choose, be sure to get the 3-4 psi version of the Facet. They make 4 or 5 different models. Even with that, a pressure regulator such as others have mentioned will likely be needed. There are many brands of regulators, I'm using a Holley with a small gauge on it, mounted in the engine compartment near the carbs.
The other major types of electric fuel pump available are known as "interrupter" and "gerotor" or "gearotor". The latter runs a more constant and steady pressure, possibly with a little less noise. This type pump is often higher output and higher pressure, but there are low pressure, moderate volume versions, too. The interrupter type pump tends to be in between, with moderate pressure and volume, but also is made in low pressure, low volume versions. The interrupter type usually makes a ticking noise similar to the solid state type. Both interrupter and gerotor types are quite a bit larger than the Facet solid state pump, which might be a concern if the mounting location you choose is tight on space. There are many brands of interrupter and gerotor pumps: Mallory, Aeromotive, MSD, Accel, Magna Fuel, Paxton, Vortech and Edelbrock are a few manufacturers, in addition to those already mentioned. Facet makes an interrupter type, too.
A neat thing about electric pumps, especially the small Facet cubes, is that you can leave the original mechanical pump in place on your engine if original appearance is important. Hide the Facet (or other pump) back under the rear of your car and most will never see it. They will just hear it a little when you first turn on the ignition.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
I installed a Facet solid state (the small cube type) on my TR4. It's mounted on the inboard side of the LH rear shock bracket (different from your 4A, but hopefully gives you an idea where), a location I liked since it is well below the fuel tank and outside the body work in the event of a leak due to an accident or whatever. Tucked above it, mounted on the body, is a large Fram FP-1 fuel filter (changeable cartridge). This is fed by two hoses from the fuel tank, one from the original outlet on the LH side, the other from the normally plugged drain hole on the RH side. With this setup I have no concerns about slosh uncovering the outlet during hard cornering! (Which is more likely in later cars, which did away with the baffles found inside TR4 fuel tanks.)
Another common pump location is in the corner of the spare tire well, in the trunk. This does put the system inside the car, but is no more dangerous than the fuel tank location, itself (which is better than many cars, IMHO, with it close to the rear). If installation is nicely tucked into the corner, it won't interfere with carrying a spare in the trunk. Some folks put the filter there, too, others put it under the car. Mounting in the trunk means runing hoses through two holes into and out of the trunk.
I've seen pumps located higher up on the wall or side floors of the trunk, but those are risking air getting into the pump and causing problems. As mentioned, it's important to locate below the level of the bottom of the fuel tank.
Use a rubber mounting kit with Facet ss pumps and they will not be all that noisy. Some sort of rubber mounting is useful to protect most types of elec fuel pumps from shocks, too.
I am using a relay to feed power to the fuel pump. It's also on it's own, fused circuit (might change that to a circuit breaker). In some cases, I've heard of putting a small resistor in the power lead to a fuel pump, to make it run quieter, too. Also consider - if you have other electrical loads, like a cooling fan and high power headlights or fog lights - the original generator might be underpowered with the addition of another electrical device like a fuel pump.
It's possible to run two of the small Facets in parallel, with a little extra plumbing of course, to give some reduncancy. Most other pumps are too large for this to be practical (thus there are some like the double-end SU that have built-in redundancy).
There are both aftermarket inertia switches and low oil pressure cutoffs available, that can be used separately or together for some extra margin of safety in the event of an accident. A manual fuel pump switch in the cockpit can also serve for safety, but makes a great anti-theft device, too! The inertia and oil pressure switches are available from most racing supply stores: Jegs, Summit, Pegasus, Racer's Wholesale, etc.
If it's what you choose, be sure to get the 3-4 psi version of the Facet. They make 4 or 5 different models. Even with that, a pressure regulator such as others have mentioned will likely be needed. There are many brands of regulators, I'm using a Holley with a small gauge on it, mounted in the engine compartment near the carbs.
The other major types of electric fuel pump available are known as "interrupter" and "gerotor" or "gearotor". The latter runs a more constant and steady pressure, possibly with a little less noise. This type pump is often higher output and higher pressure, but there are low pressure, moderate volume versions, too. The interrupter type pump tends to be in between, with moderate pressure and volume, but also is made in low pressure, low volume versions. The interrupter type usually makes a ticking noise similar to the solid state type. Both interrupter and gerotor types are quite a bit larger than the Facet solid state pump, which might be a concern if the mounting location you choose is tight on space. There are many brands of interrupter and gerotor pumps: Mallory, Aeromotive, MSD, Accel, Magna Fuel, Paxton, Vortech and Edelbrock are a few manufacturers, in addition to those already mentioned. Facet makes an interrupter type, too.
A neat thing about electric pumps, especially the small Facet cubes, is that you can leave the original mechanical pump in place on your engine if original appearance is important. Hide the Facet (or other pump) back under the rear of your car and most will never see it. They will just hear it a little when you first turn on the ignition.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif