TR4/4A TR4 saga continues: why does Craigslist attract so many flakes?

[Sarastro]

I had largely decided to postpone my search for a project TR4, when I looked at Craigslist and discovered a candidate locally--'67 TR4A, as I preferred, not bad looking but with some obvious body rust, and, according to the seller, some frame rust. Not driveable, as the brakes were not functioning, but with a reportedly working engine. Priced at $6K, "firm." Here is the listing:

https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/5485937523.html

The frame rust is a bit of a worry for me, but, what the heck, I decided to drive down to The OC and see it. I contacted the guy, and we made arrangements, although he wouldn't give me his name or address until I called him when I was ready to leave. Strange, but OK. A day later, I received an email from him stating that, oh dear, he had entered the price wrong and now it was $8K. I replied, more politely than he deserved, that the price was on the high side at $6K and that $8K was a show-stopper. So, that was that.

I guess the guy thought I was born yesterday, and couldn't figure out that he raised the price on seeing some interest in the car. I see this all the time--listings start at one price, then, suddenly the price increases. This happens even if the car sits on Craigslist a long time and doesn't sell. You'd think that people would understand that if a car doesn't sell at, say, $10K, it's not going to sell any better at $12K--but they often seem not to understand this elementary point.

I have had many similar experiences with Craigslist flakes when I look for other things--I call about an item and no one answers after repeated tries, I go to see something and the seller isn't home, prices change mysteriously, and so on. What is it about CR that attracts these people? At this point, I'm ready to stop using Craigslist completely. It's just not worth the frustration.

 

[Jerry]

Lots of scammers on Craigslist. They offer you help selling, ask for details that are private, Obviously, you have to filter the ads and the respondents. I don't know how to improve it. I have decided not to list on Craigslist anymore. If I had to sell a car, I would use Bringatrailer.

 

[Marvin Gruber]

I have a TR4a listed on Craigslist right now. I have gotten several inquiries about it but nothing that anyone as followed thru on. I get a bit more nasty with the telamarketers and say didn't you read the ad, don't need help selling! For the most part I've had good luck with Craigslist. You can usually spot the crazies pretty quick.
Marv

 

[Brinkerhoff]

The price is a bit high but the color is spot on ! An original Signal Red TR4A that doesn't look all beat up and butchered ? It might not be a great car but the fact that the brakes are worn out from use , instead of the guy using the front sheet metal to stop , is a plus for me. This car is from Minnesota so the rust will be much , much worse than it looks . Good luck.

 

[Sarastro]

Yes, I noticed the Minnesota license plate. That, plus frame rust, makes me think that there is a lot of rust that doesn't show in the few, bad pictures.

I know there are scammers on Craigslist, both buyers and sellers, but if you are going to choose that venue to sell a car, you have to accept and plan for that risk without jerking around potential customers. I really don't like it when some guy writes a lot of tough comments into an CR ad--I understand he may have had problems in the past, but in the final analysis, I expect to be treated as a customer and not abused and lectured to.

As for Bring A Trailer, I tried to list my TD with them, but they turned it down because it was "not what their viewers were interested in." Then they listed a car that was pretty much the same. I suspect that they get many more offers than they can list, and sometimes they just have to select some and not others, and are not always consistent. But, if you can get them to take it, it seems like a good way to go.

Sites like Hemmings and Autotrader tend to be overtaken by dealers, so I don't think there is much point in using those for an individual sale. I've used eBay to buy and sell several cars, and it's always worked well. But I can't choose where other people decide to list their cars.

 

[glemon]

Criagslist can be very frustrating, but you can find deals out there, but you have to wade through a lot of people that will 1) raise the price if you show interest as the guy did to you 2) Never respond 3) Not follow through with the showing etc. 4) Item nowhere like described, but this isn't as bad as Ebay bacause at least it is (intended to be anyway) local and you can look before you buy. My brother just told me about a guy he called about an old BMW, asked about the car he had I Craigslist, said they guy got all mad and why was he calling because the car was sold a month ago. Hmmnnn, maybe take the ad down idiot.

The those things are irritating, but the tnings you need to be very careful of are of course your own safety and not getting scammed, either by sending money before you get anything, sending more money that it costs so he can free his uncle in Nigeria and send you $10,000 back, or, not have a good title or sell the car without by acquiring the title from the last seller and not titling it themselves to save on taxes and fees. DMVs are getting more picky if they suspect this one, and they almost didn't title the car I bought out of state because they suspected it, turned out they were wrong, but they had me thinking I might have been scammed for a short while until the seller came through with some additional paperwork for me.

 

[Popeye]

The asking price is only that - "asking". I will ask for a steak for dinner tonight, but I will be content with a sloppy joe.

If the car is the right car, go look at it with cash in hand. If the seller declines to make a "fair" deal (in the eyes of the buyer), tell him/her your offer stands for a week, during which you commit to not making offers on other cars (handshake agreement). Call back in a week, and see what the decision is. (In truth, even if it is a long time later, and you are still looking, the seller may come back to you and you can meet at the original "fair" price.)

If the seller shows other cars as reference points, thank the seller and go look at the other cars. (Make sure you tell the seller you are looking... you could even provide some feedback - "Thanks for pointing out that pristine TR4A for 12k. i bought it." :welcoming

 

[Sarastro]

Some good thoughts, guys!

Let me show you something I put in my latest ad for my TD (which did not appear on Craigslist, by the way). I've done something similar for every item I've sold on CL, and often on eBay:

Please don't feel offended by the following, as it probably doesn't apply to you--but I've had problems in the past, so this is, unfortunately, necessary. I don't need any help selling the car. I'm open to a sale to a dealer, but only at a reasonable price. I am not desperate to sell this car, so unrealistic "low-ball" offers will just waste your time and mine. I'm wise to all the usual scams, and I can easily smell any new ones that come along--so if that's your thing, don't bother trying. Please deal professionally with me, and I will do the same for you.

This is one way to send the message without being a jerk.

As the above says, I'm aware of the scams and I can smell them a mile off. So, I'm not too worried about those. And, I have to admit, there are good deals on CL if you look for them. About a year ago, I found a 2003 Toyota MR2 Spyder on the local CL, 27K miles, a lovely car. The owner priced it a little below book value. I grabbed it, and am still thrilled with it.

So, I guess the mature way of looking at this is to view CL as the wild west--keep your six shooter ready, and head on out. If you can't do that, stay away. I think I'll stay away for now, but probably, eventually I'll be back.

 

[NutmegCT]

Why does Craigslist attract so many flakes?

Because it's free, and there are a *lot* of flakes - both buyers, and sellers.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...This is one way to send the message without being a jerk...

General Njumbo called from Lagos -- he still thinks you're a jerk.

 

[CJD]

You do get a ton of losers dealing with Caig's list, but it is also one of the best ways to market items.

Last year I put my Jag up for sale at a price so far below market that it wasn't funny. I got many calls, several visits...all of which complained I was asking too much. In each case I showed them th Blue Book and NADA values and asked them to explain WHY it was too high. None could. I had it so low that I refused to negotiate lower.

After a week of being insulted, I re-listed for $4k higher than my initial. Fewer calls, but I got a buyer in a couple weeks!! I reduced the price $1k, the buyer thought he got a deal because I came down, and was none the wiser that I had tried to list it $3k lower just 3 weeks before.

I guess my moral is...the flakiness goes both ways with Craig's list. It is human nature to think you got a good deal if you can barter a little lower....whether it really is or not!

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Amen, you can always go lower than asking price. I have done like John, if the car didn't sell, I waited a while and relisted at higher price, came down to first asking price and sold it right away.
Marv

 

[NutmegCT]

Back in the 1970s my dad was manager of a large department store. He told me he could buy a 100 men's suits for $25 each. If he made the price $50 each, no one was interested. If he made the price tag "$200 - on sale for $150" - they sold like hot cakes. For a $25 suit!

No one wants something that looks cheap. But if the same item looks like a bargain - they go for it.

 

[Popeye]

No one wants something that looks cheap. But if the same item looks like a bargain - they go for it.

A great read on behavioral economics - and some explanation on why humans behave this way: Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely. https://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational-Revised-Expanded-Edition/dp/0061353248

 

[pdplot]

Some years ago, a client of mine built a 14-unit condo. He put in all good stuff and was a quality builder. He priced the units at the same asking price as a nearby condo that he assured me was built like crap. I told him to raise the price and point out the difference to buyers. He did - sold all the units for more than he was originally asking. Moral - don't sell yourself short if you've got a good thing.

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Just got a repeat story from buyer who is in the Air Force but currently away and wants to send money by Paypal. I asked him to hold his breath until he hears back from me.
Marv

 

[bnw]

If it's a scam, the email you get from Paypal will say the money is there, but being held until the receiver verifies the condition of the item sold. These guys are getting real good with their scams.