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TR4/4A TR4 Fan Belt

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M

Miles64

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<font color="black"> </font> The TR4 is a 64 and I have had it about 3 months. My other LBC is a 52 MG TD, so I have a smattering of mechanical knowldege, but not much.
I finall got the new fuel pump on yesterday, and during the test drive the fan belt decided to give up the ghost.
The problem is I am unable to get the new belt installed because of the "tight" space between the shaft of the fan and the steering rack. Is it possible to "jack up" the engine a 1/4" or so without damage to the car? This should allow the belt to pass w/o a problem.
Thanks.
 
Not having a TR4, I might be talking out of school here, but on my TR6 (some similarities) the engine mounts often wear out and will allow the engine to drop down as much as 1/2 inch or so. You might be in for new engine mounts, or at least loosen them up and retighten them higher, they generally have a elongated slot for this purpose. To answer your question, lifting the engine a bit will cause no problems, but how will you do this on the road when the belt decides to break again?

Bill
 
Hi,

To lift the engine, be sure to use a large block of wood under the sump to keep from denting it. A 12-18" length of 2x10 or 2x12 would be great.

I agree, new motor mounts would likely solve the problem. There were several different motor mounts used on TRs, to get the right ones for your car refer to the chassis number.

There are also temporary/emergency fanbelts. They snap together and make installation easy. Might be a good item to keep in the trunk, just in case.

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
speaking of temporary emergency fan belts. My TR3A had the fan belt break on time while I was out in the country. I was looking under the hood when this nice man who lived near by asked if he could help. So I say "only if you happen to have one of these". It turns out this guy (who was about 60 at the time back in 1986) kept all his old fan belts and he always changed them when the manual said to, so he had a large collection of belts for me to pick from. The result was that a belt from a WV Jetta was the same lenth, but of course only 1/2" wider rather then the 1" the TR needed. But it did the trick and got me home. It also had no problem getting by the tight space given it is smaller.

So the moral of the story is you can use a 1/2" belt as the emergency spare to keep in the boot (I keep the 1/2" and the 1" in the boot for a spare).
 
On a TR4, even with new motor mounts you will likely have to loosen the drivers side mount and jack the engine up a bit (as noted, piece of wood between jack & oil pan). On TR3s you can usually get by with just cranking the wheels to full lock (lowers the tie rod enough).

I've been able to get the wide belt at NAPA (p/n 25-24379) though that is a cogged belt.

For roadside replacement I carry an emergency belt kit (haven't had to use it) and also a length of nylon rope that can be stretched around the pulleys and tied. The latter can even be used to make a crank/water pump belt to bypass a siezed generator (have had to do that).

The Jetta belt is an interesting solution for roadside replacement. The stock belt is 3/4" x 38-1/2" (19mm x 980mm)... those measurements might be enough to guide you to a 1/2" alternative.
 
Thanks for the advice. The motor mounts are new, but the method suggested using a 2 x 10 under the sump sounds like the best solution. I do have a floor jack and can "ease" the engine up a little.
As for the spare for emergency repairs, the idea of a smaller profile belt may be the answer.I am gathering a set of tools to carry in the 4 and it will definately include a 1/2" and 9/16" wrench and socket set.
Again, thanks for the advice. Since I live in a divided household (MG and Triumph), I need to get the 4 on the road. My wife claims ownership of the TD.
 
Do as Geo says, if still tight twist belt side ways at the pully and pull through by turning engine with the fan blade.Battery cable off.
 
This is my first reply here although I've helped many on the two other Triumph BBSs.

The 1" belts only last about 1,000 miles. For the last 12 years (65,000 miles) I have used a 1/2" cogged GATES belt. It goes on easily and lasts years. Also if you turn your steering wheel to one extreme or the other the steering will advance and give you the other 1/4" you need to slide the 1" belt on.

Don Elliott, Original Owner, 1958 TR3A, Montreal, Canada
https://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/trebor/don3a_big.JPG
 
I don't understand ... I have no problem slipping the thick belt out and replacing it. My TR-4, #30559,maybe later than yours. Maybe you can change out the Fan extension hub ... mine allows a lot of room to pass the belt.
 
Re: TR4 Fan Belt & "newbie" Don Elliot

FWIW, I just last night replaced my engine mounts, before I put on my yellow fan. Interestingly, I had slightly less clearance with the fan than before; lifting the engine w/ the new mounts raised the front ever so slightly, closer to the cross brace. I added some thin washers behind the fan, for added clearance and peace of mind.
Not such a fun job, replacing engine mounts w/o a helper, but it can and was done...
On Don Elliot's note on fan belt width, I checked the width of my new belt from TRF; it's 3/4 inch. I'm wondering if this is the 1-inch belt that's being referred to, and if so, maybe just using it as a spare, and using the "newbies" idea of the thinner Gates belt. I'm giving a lot of creedance to Don's experience here!
Off to pick up the radiator....

Kevin Browne '59TR3A #58370
 
Re: TR4 Fan Belt & "newbie" Don Elliot

The thick solid belts won't last because they cannot flex around the pulleys. They are more rigid than the ones that were common for 4-cylinder TR's back in the '50's and 60's. The cogged belts flex easily around the pulleys so they last. I have to admit that when it rains, mine will squeak and I have to spray some aerosol belt dressing onto it to reduce the noise.

Don Elliott, 1958 TR3A
https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthread...e=&sortdir=
 
[ QUOTE ]
... I have no problem slipping the thick belt out and replacing it. My TR-4, #30559 ... allows a lot of room to pass the belt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

Yeah, my TR4's fanbelt has never been a problem to change either. It now has a thin belt conversion with a harmonic balancer and an electric fan, making it even easier. But there was never a problem, that I can recall, swapping out the original belts.

It's CT17602L, so 1962 build and fairly early. That means the earlier steering rack is used, with the solid aluminum mounts and "ear"-style rack mounting brackets.

A more permanent solution might be to shim up the engine a little at the engine mounts. Get some large fender washers and put them between the mount and the front engine plate brackets, maybe enough washers to permanently raise the engine 1/4" or a little more. Alternatively, the washers could go under the engine mount, at the frame mounting point.

If you do this, there are a couple things to watch. First be sure that clearance at the rear of the head is okay, there's no interference with either the firewall under the battery shelf or the throttle linkage cross-shaft. The other concern would be the fan and it's extension hub, that there is no interference and adequate clearance at the steering rack, radiator, etc.

Just curious, a question for you folks who have fan belt installation issues: Your car does have the front cross brace installed, from shock/spring tower-to-tower, doesn't it? The reason I ask is that sometimes the cross brace gets removed and left off... That *might* allow the towers to spread apart and change the position of the motor mount on the frame.

Other than that, I would guess it's just variation in build, from car to car. TRs were essentially hand built and there is a surprising amount of variation.

Cheers!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
Alan: Yes, I have the cross brace (with newish notor mounts) and let me tell you Houdini himself could not get a stock belt between the fan hub and the rack.

Don: The 'crank the steering wheel' trick only works on TR2s & 3s, on the TR4 R&P the rack is firmly fixed.

They did change the steering rack mounts at CT20064, plus some folks use aluminum (rather than rubber) mounts so perhaps these variations account for some of the different experiences.

BTW: The stock belts are pretty wide by modern standards but I think they have always be 3/4" not 1". They can last a lot longer if you do not get them too tight -- in fact you coul almost say I keep mine loose. They really don't need a lot of tension to just turn the dynamo & H2O pump. Modern cars with skinny belts, power steering, AC compressors, high amp alternators, etc need well-tensioned belts.
 
Again, thanks for all the advice. The fan belt has been installed and is working well. I loosened the motor mounts slightly and jacked up the engine just enough to slip the belt on. The stock belt I used was a 3/4" cogged belt.
I did notice that in the current Moss catalogue, the "raise the engine" solution is listed as a way to install fan belts on TR 4s. Next up - a new grill.
 
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