TR2/3/3A TR3A Will Not Start

[SteveBones]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding reinstalling the spark plug wires 180 degrees from their present location. I missed this earlier. Would you please describe what wire would go where? I have not done this before.

Thanks,

Steve

I agree.
What SteveBones describes sounds to me like valves 1 & 2 are on the rock and the piston, although near the top, is not ready for ignition.

"Have you at least tried reinstalling the spark plug wires 180* from their present location in the cap ?"

 

[TR3driver]

There are several ways to correct the timing. The quick and dirty method is to just move the plug wires around in the cap (swap #1 with #4 and #2 with #3). The engine doesn't "care" and will run just fine that way.

The other solution is to remove the distributor and pedestal, then pick up the drive gear and turn it 180 degrees. Then turn the distributor shaft as well, before you put it back together.

As a rough check that the front pulley is assembled properly, turn to indicated TDC and then poke a wire or wooden pencil down the #1 plug hole. If you can touch the top of the piston, the cylinder is pretty close to TDC. Since the pulley can only be assembled in 60 degree increments, that should be good enough.

 

[NutmegCT]

Steve - just to freshen things up ... when was the last time the engine ran correctly?

What work was done by the previous owner?

Tom

 

[Geo Hahn]

There are several ways to correct the timing. The quick and dirty method is to just move the plug wires around in the cap (swap #1 with #4 and #2 with #3)...

Or (if I'm thinking clearly this early in the a.m.) even quicker and dirtier is to swap the wires on plugs 1 & 4 and on 2 & 3.

Whatever you try -- if it works you won't want to leave it like that, but there'll be time later to set it right.

 

[TR3driver]

Or (if I'm thinking clearly this early in the a.m.) even quicker and dirtier is to swap the wires on plugs 1 & 4 and on 2 & 3.

Might work, but usually the #1 wire is too short to reach the #4 plug.

 

[SteveBones]

Randall,

Great suggestions. I will try the quick and dirty method first to see if the engine fires up.

I did check (and will recheck) that the front pulley via turning it to TDC and using a wire to touch the #1 piston. I did this early in the process. I need to do this again just to be sure.

I will check on these two items later today and let you know.

If these two suggestions show progress, I will work on removing the distributor. I will need to read up on this. Last time I removed a distributor was 10 plus years ago. I want to make sure I do it right vs. contributing more to the problem.

Thank you again for the great suggestions and timely response. Very much appreciated.

Steve

There are several ways to correct the timing. The quick and dirty method is to just move the plug wires around in the cap (swap #1 with #4 and #2 with #3). The engine doesn't "care" and will run just fine that way.

The other solution is to remove the distributor and pedestal, then pick up the drive gear and turn it 180 degrees. Then turn the distributor shaft as well, before you put it back together.

As a rough check that the front pulley is assembled properly, turn to indicated TDC and then poke a wire or wooden pencil down the #1 plug hole. If you can touch the top of the piston, the cylinder is pretty close to TDC. Since the pulley can only be assembled in 60 degree increments, that should be good enough.

 

[SteveBones]

Or (if I'm thinking clearly this early in the a.m.) even quicker and dirtier is to swap the wires on plugs 1 & 4 and on 2 & 3.

Might work, but usually the #1 wire is too short to reach the #4 plug.

I have an extra distributor cap and wires so if I need to borrow, I can still check this out.

 

[SteveBones]

Thanks for the info. Good to know it is not a permanent fix but intended to help isolate the problem. I will check it out.

Thanks!

Steve

Or (if I'm thinking clearly this early in the a.m.) even quicker and dirtier is to swap the wires on plugs 1 & 4 and on 2 & 3.

Whatever you try -- if it works you won't want to leave it like that, but there'll be time later to set it right.

[/quote]

 

[SteveBones]

Tom,

You are asking a very good question. For the car, it has not run for 12 years. I purchased it as what they call a barn find about 1.5 years ago. The brakes were frozen but the engine turned over. A cat had been living in the car or at least using it as a litter box. It was a good price and mostly original so I decided to take the plunge and buy the car.

For me, I have owned a # of TR's over a 35 year period. I purchased my first TR4A when I was 18 years old. The problem or challenge is that I have not really had to do major work on one in over 20 years. My "other" TR is a 62 that I also did some extensive work on when I first purchased. When I purchased the 62, TR4, I had it towed to my house.

The good news is that my prior TR work was long enough ago where I forgot how much I really would have to do to get this TR3A back on the road. When it was time to make this purchase, I convinced myself that it would not be such a big effort this time around. It is all coming back to me now.

The bad news is that it has been long enough where I am not sure what I remember or forgot about how to work on these cars. This is where you have all been really, really helpful with helping me figure this out.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve - just to freshen things up ... when was the last time the engine ran correctly?

What work was done by the previous owner?

Tom

 

[poolboy]

Don't make this more complicated than it need to be, for the time being just swap the wires on the distributor cap

 

[SteveBones]

Sounds good. That is the plan. I will try it out later today.

Don't make this more complicated than it need to be, for the time being just swap the wires on the distributor cap

 

[TR3driver]

Whatever you try -- if it works you won't want to leave it like that, but there'll be time later to set it right.

One of those "personal preference" areas, IMO. My Dad's TR3A had the wires swapped in the cap when I convinced him to buy the car back in 1973 or so; and AFAIK is still running that way.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is sometimes the best advice.

 

[SteveBones]

I did verify that the distributor and timing is off by 180 degrees.

The way I verified this was by aligning the pulley TDC mark. I placed my finger on the #1 cylinder spark plug hole and turned over the motor. I could hear and feel when the #1 cylinder hit TDC on the compression stroke. When this happened the distributor rotor was pointing at #4 distributor cap wire.

I started looking into moving the distributor 180 degrees to the correct position. The distributor shaft gear is in the correct position with the slot pointing to the #1 cylinder and the shaft marker on the bottom. The manual has a picture of this that I was able to use as a reference

This is a first time for me, but I am interested in understanding how to correct the 180 off timing issue. Do I make the change via the distributor since the distributor drive gear was verified to be aligned correctly.

Would I remove the pin on the "drive dog" on the bottom of the distributor to rotate 180 degrees?

Thanks again for the help on this.

Steve

 

[TR3driver]

Yup.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...The distributor shaft gear is in the correct position with the slot pointing to the #1 cylinder and the shaft marker on the bottom...

Just to be 100% clear, you are seeing this when #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke?

IOW, the slot is offset to the right?

 

[poolboy]

Some people might find the lingo confusing,,talking about "offset".
I know, I know..but for some it might be best to say somthing like "the smaller half" is on the right. or "the bigger half" is on the left... depending upon your persuasion :crazy:

 

[SteveBones]

Yes, confirming..... the slot is offset to the right on my engine. (Great picture by the way. Very helpful in confirming what I am seeing.) With the distributor shaft gear in the correct position, the rotor on my distributor is pointing to the #4 cylinder park plug wire (Off - 180 degrees).

I would like to fix this and understand I will need to remove the pin of the "driving dog" at the bottom of the distributor. Using the Moss catalog reference for the "driving dog" which connects the distributor to the distributor shaft gear.

This will be the first time needing to remove the "drive dog" to rotate 180 degrees. I plan to use a punch to knock out the pin. Not sure if I need to reorder a replacement pin. Since Moss does have both the "drive dog" and the pin, if I can not reuse the original pin, I can order a replacement.

Thanks again for all the help. Any suggestions based on other's experience on this is much appreciated.

Steve

...The distributor shaft gear is in the correct position with the slot pointing to the #1 cylinder and the shaft marker on the bottom...

Just to be 100% clear, you are seeing this when #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke?

IOW, the slot is offset to the right?

 

[SteveBones]

Thanks for the help in making sure I am looking at this correctly. I confirmed that the offset "smaller half" is on the right. I now need to focus on the distributor and its drive dog at the bottom. I understand I will need to remove and rotate 180 degrees.

Thanks,

Steve

Some people might find the lingo confusing,,talking about "offset".
I know, I know..but for some it might be best to say somthing like "the smaller half" is on the right. or "the bigger half" is on the left... depending upon your persuasion :crazy:

 

[NutmegCT]

Hi Steve - just my overly-paranoid two cents:

Once you're sure the distributor is correctly back in place, remember to put all the other bits and pieces back in place correctly. I think you've been moving cap wires, plug wires, etc. around during the experimentation phase?

Tom

 

[TRopic6]

Aloha Steve,

If I read this correctly, you might can fix it by just moving the cam 180 degrees instead of messing with the drive dog. The cam slips onto the "shaft action plate" and is held on by a single screw in the middle. The centrifugal advance springs keep the cam against the stop on said plate, so those have to come off. My TR3A is 5000 miles away, but the TR6 distributor works the same way. In dissembling the TR6 distributor to lube those same parts, it is possible to get that cam 180 out; ask me how I know...

Jeff