TR2/3/3A TR3A Upper Wishbone - Bush R&R

[bigjones]

Hi Folks,

I'd like to replace the perished bushes on the upper wishbone. Haynes details this procedure but references the TR2 diagram and the TR2 has a different wishbone. The Haynes procedure includes separating the upper ball-joint from the vertical link.

Looking at the TR3 diagram above, is this necessary? Couldn't I just remove nuts(#7) and bolts(#8) and separate the wishbone.

Please bear in mind this is new territory for me - are there any safety concerns?

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324

 

[prb51]

Big,
Yea, the uppers are under tension from the spring, if you removed the nuts and could pry the ind arms off you'd have a serious wreck.
You need a tool to secure the spring..someone will show you a picture..but you remove the shock (damper) and it is placed in its stead and tightened to encase the spring (hold it in tension).
Then you can remove the nut from the upper ball joint (different than your photo copy as it is a single bolt thru both arms-that is a TR4a) and then remove each arm and replace the bushings.
I'd suggest a poly bush replacement with poly lube as they will last a great deal longer than rubber.

 

[Tinster]

Ask Paul Rego for some help.

He recently installed a 100% new front suspension and
he is the site guru when it comes to these things. Randall
is also very knowledgable about such things.

I'm a non-mechanic TR6 owner but I know where to look
for help. I am ususally wrong, but it seems to me you
might get injured if you do not use a coil spring conpressor
on the front suspension.

I used this method AFTER I had removed the coil spring.
It worked fine for me but the concept was incorrect, I'm told..

https://www.scribd.com/doc/522465/Upper-a-Arms

The site experts will correct my mistakes, I am sure.

good luxk.

 

[bigjones]

PRB and Tinster,
Many thanks for the reply.
Methinks I'll take into the British car mechanic to do!

Yeah, major blunder on the diagram. As you point out, thats for a TR4A. I blame Haynes for mislabelling.

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324

 

[TR3driver]

The diagram above is for a later TR4-4A (with 3 degrees caster); the TR3 uses the same zero caster wishbones as the TR2 (although some later ones were apparently reinforced for more strength).

But in either case, there actually isn't any tension from the spring, assuming your rebound stops are in good shape. I've done the upper bushings numerous times without touching the spring.

With the earlier style wishbones, if your rebound stops have sagged a bit, the end of the ball joint may touch the spring tower where it protrudes through the wishbones, making it difficult to remove that nut. If so, just stick a jack & chunk of 2x4 under the spring pan, just inboard of the trunnion, and lift it up a bit. As long as you don't jack against the trunnion itself, there still won't be any force on the upper wishbones.

I eventually got tired of having to replace those dang rubber bushings every few years, and converted to Nylatron. You might want to consider that, or polyurethane. It's possible that current supply rubber bushings last longer, but the ones I got in the 80s & 90s sure didn't last. In one case, I could see one of them starting to split less than a month after it was installed !

Don't forget that if you stick with rubber bushings, the suspension should be loaded when you tighten the nuts. The 2x4 under the spring pan works for that, too.

 

[prb51]

My mistake, TR3 is correct, the upper spring is enclosed by bodywork and will keep everything in place as long as you have the lower stop or something to keep the lowers in place.
Try it yourself, even a total front end rebuild is easy enough when you follow the manual and get the help you need on this site.
The more you do yourself the better you know your car.
Luck,
Pat

 

[TR3driver]

The Haynes procedure includes separating the upper ball-joint from the vertical link.

Forgot to mention, that isn't necessary either. You can just loosen the nut 13 in the diagram below (cribbed from the Moss catalog), then tap and pry on the ball joint to pull it outwards from the wishbones; continuing to undo the nut as it comes out. Once the nut is off the threads, pull the BJ all the way out. You'll want to have some baling wire handy to support the vertical link, so it doesn't strain the brake hose.

Assembly is the reverse. Pay attention to which arm goes closest to the BJ. It's usually best to leave the other side assembled, so you can refer to it if you have any questions about where something goes.

 

[tdskip]

Assembly is the reverse. Pay attention to which arm goes closest to the BJ. It's usually best to leave the other side assembled, so you can refer to it if you have any questions about where something goes.

Nah, just rip into it with abandon! Makes for good conversation here.

Lots of great advice here, and doing one side at a time is very good coaching. Consider giving it a try, it is easier than it looks. 90% of it is working up the nerve. Really

Strongly consider poly bushings - I'm doing a rolling upgrade to poly across the board. You'll be happy with the result and longevity.

 

[bigjones]

Wow, I'm very pleased!

Thanks for the advice - it certainly looks do-able now.
I'd just given my poor CBSU the "we gotta tighten our belts" speech so taking the ole TR3 to the LBC shop would not have gone down too well!

I'll post pics when I get into it.

Cheers!
Adrian
TS58325

 

[angelfj1]

Wow, I'm very pleased!

I'd just given my poor CBSU the "we gotta tighten our belts" speech
Cheers!
Adrian
TS58325

"CBSU" ???

Adrian: you now have some great advice from our friends. Also, thought you'd like to know that your 3A and mine were built within the same week. Mine was Tuesday, September 1, 1959. Yours was probably Thursday or Friday, August 27 or 28. That's based on the production rate at that time which was approx. 100 cars per day.

Cheers, Frank

 

[bigjones]

Frank!

Many thanks for the post. I've been meaning to find out the TR3 birthday. You know why - it is going to be the big 50 this year!! Party time and presents!

Look at the smile on its face!!

I sometimes ponder that, as I was trundling along in the rain, on my way to primary school in England, that unbeknown to me, my TR3 was being meticulously assembled by the good folks at Triumph.

Now it sems that I was on summer holiday when it first saw the light of day. Ha!

CBSU = Carbon-based spousal unit. (ie my long suffering wife)

Cheers,
Adrian TS 58324

 

[bigjones]

Hi Folks,
Here is a "before" picture:

Disassembly was fairly easy, though I do have a question. The A arm does have grooves in it corresponding to splines on the ball joint end. Do I need worry about trying to line these up on assembly?

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324

 

[TR3driver]

The A arm does have grooves in it corresponding to splines on the ball joint end. Do I need worry about trying to line these up on assembly?

IMO, no need to worry about that. What's important is that the body of the ball joint be more or less level with the A-arms, as it may bind otherwise. The splines will want to drop back into their old grooves anyway, so just be sure it winds up level.

Someone, I forget who offhand, reported that his new ball joints had the splines located differently than the old ones, and had to be held so the splines would cut new grooves. But I assume you are putting back the old ball joints, so that shouldn't be an issue.

PS, don't forget the spacer & the flat washer when you put it back together.

 

[bigjones]

Cheers Randall,

Something to note - last week I done the upper trunnion bushings on the Midget.

The replacement "polyurethane" bushes (red) from VB were still in their manufacturers blister pack (www.prothane.com) In the blister pack was a small sachet of grease. This was something like vaseline only very sticky!

Anyway, the TR3 "poly" bushes (black), also from VB, just came in a ziplock bag. No grease.

Fortunately, I still have some grease left in the sachet so I'll use that unless someone chimes in.

Adrian (quite pleased with the progress so far)
TS58324

 

[TR3driver]

AFAIK, any sort of grease should do. But lots of folks have reported that poly tends to squeak annoyingly if it's dry, so using the grease was definitely a good idea.

"Like Vaseline only very sticky" might be silicone grease, which IMO would be the best for this application.

 

[RonMacPherson]

Use a silicone grease, especially in the center of the bushing.... Be liberal in application.

 

[bigjones]

Ron,

Thanks for the post.

The job is now done. The second wheel went a lot faster!

The end of the ball joint was touching the shock tower but I used Randall's method for jacking up (see post above) to give a sufficient gap to remove the nut securing the ball joint end to the A-Arm.

I also used a piece of 2x4 on top of a jack stand to hold the weight of the hub, as well as a bit of coat hanger wire from the ball joint nipple to the stud on top of the shock tower. On re-assembly, I twisted this 2x4 around 90 degrees and used it to lever the hub up so the ball joint end would go through the hole in the A-Arm. Worked a treat.

Next up - see new thread entitled "Play in Front Wheels".

Thanks again for all the help in replacing the bushings. I can cross that item off the list. Onward and upward!

Cheers,
Adrian
TS58324