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TR2/3/3A TR3A Sidescreen fitting fit

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71TR6

71TR6

Jedi Hopeful
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I'm in the process of fitting the sidescreens to my TR3A and the fitting is giving me fits. I've researched prior posts and understand the process but I am running into a "somethin' ain't right" situation so I thought I'd ask the forum for advice.

The used sidescreens I bought are not original to the car but match up well to old frames I have so they appear to be factory ones that may or may not have been recovered. When I place the front edge of the sidescreen up against the windshield so the flap is just about in the groove of the stanchion, the top edge of the sidescreen is nowhere close to being covered by the hood flap (see pictures). Even the back edge of the sidescreen just doesn't look right and isn't aligned with the cut of the hood.
IMG_4603.JPG
IMG_4604.JPG



IMG_4605.JPG


The sockets were originally mounted so they just butted up against the door panel piping which is where I have the sidescreen positioned right now (see picture). The yellow tape shows where the original sockets were located.
IMG_4606.JPG


I don't think I can shift the sidescreen up any more since that would move the top of the sockets well above the piping on the door panel. I've already loosened the mounting screws for the hood sticks and tried to shift the sticks around but that had no impact.

I'm not sure what to try next and am open to any and all ideas and thoughts on how I might correct this?

Thanks as always!
Ron
 
71TR6 said:
I'm in the process of fitting the sidescreens to my TR3A and the fitting is giving me fits. I've researched prior posts and understand the process but I am running into a "somethin' ain't right" situation so I thought I'd ask the forum for advice.

The used sidescreens I bought are not original to the car but match up well to old frames I have so they appear to be factory ones that may or may not have been recovered. When I place the front edge of the sidescreen up against the windshield so the flap is just about in the groove of the stanchion, the top edge of the sidescreen is nowhere close to being covered by the hood flap (see pictures). Even the back edge of the sidescreen just doesn't look right and isn't aligned with the cut of the hood.
View attachment 102401View attachment 102402


View attachment 102406

The sockets were originally mounted so they just butted up against the door panel piping which is where I have the sidescreen positioned right now (see picture). The yellow tape shows where the original sockets were located.
View attachment 102403

I don't think I can shift the sidescreen up any more since that would move the top of the sockets well above the piping on the door panel. I've already loosened the mounting screws for the hood sticks and tried to shift the sticks around but that had no impact.

I'm not sure what to try next and am open to any and all ideas and thoughts on how I might correct this?

Thanks as always!
Ron
Click to expand...
I very recently went through the same process that you are attempting. First --nobody told me that there were any restrictions about where the bracket could or could not be moved. I determined that I had 2 choices. First was to modify the side curtain frames to fit the car. Not a logical solution beyond minor bending. Second ( and more logical) is to move the door bracket anywhere I needed to get the window to fit. I not only needed to move those brackets a bunch but also had to tweek the wooden in door( pre TS60000 model) frame to get a proper vertical alignment of the window.
IMHO once you are done and have completed a clean neat job. The location of the brackets is not an issue.
I would add that this was my second TR3A/B restoration. Things work good if you have the original windows but not so much with replacements.
Charley
 
To get a good fit to start with take the brackets fasten them to the window arms and with the top up and the door closed. Take the window set in the window hole from outside of the car the way it fits best front and back and up and down then trace the brackets onto the door panel. Then take the brackets off and mount them to the door.

That is as close as you can get these things for a rough fit. Once the brackets are installed on the door they can be adjusted to fine tune the fit. A little bit of adjustment movement goes a long way. If you drive in the rain much, the side-curtain needs to be under the edge of top like a roofing shingle. it looked to me like your top does not fit correctly in the middle.

You look like you are very close right now, maybe up a little to go between the flaps. This is a difficult task to make it look perfect like your interior.

steve
 
I'm afraid sidescreen fit starts with the bare frames being fitted to your car before they are re-covered. Because these are hand-fit cars, every sidescreen is slightly different. If you must take one fit to another car and install it on your's, then you will never have a "perfect" fit. You will have to find the best position possible, and then be content with it.

I am a bit concerned with the fit of your top. Something looks off with it. The middle is saggy, and the angle at the rear of the sidescreen should be less vertical. It appears it needed to be stretched fore and aft just a bit tighter, which would have improved the sidescreen and bow fit??
 
John & Steve,
Thanks so much for your comments and suggestions. I don't think I'm close to getting this to fit. I may have to compromise and get it as close as possible but I can't see a way it will fit correctly so the top edge of the side curtain fits under the outer hood flap.

Btw, when I snapped the picture, the rear bow was loose. Normally the top is drum tight with no puckers or sags. The entire top edge of the sidecurtain is parallel to the top, just 1" below where it should be. There's no way I can move the door sockets up enough to make up that difference since it would put the top of the sockets even with the top of the door roll. As far as the rear angle of the side curtain not matching with the hood, that doesn't make sense either since I can't see any adjustment that can fix that.

The only adjustment I can still make is to change the angle of the windscreen since it is angled slightly too much to the rear. Unfortunately, the 3A I have has fixed captive nuts where the mounting dovetail plate is attached so there isn't any adjustment possible. I can however elongate the countersunk holes in the plate vertically to get a fraction of a degree of windscreen movement forward. That might shift the rear of the sidecurtain up a bit but will exacerbate the socket placement on the door issue. A dilemna for sure.

I'm seriously starting to think the hood was not assembled or cut correctly since I really don't know where I can adjust to make up 1" of difference. I had a friend of mine measure his small mouth TR3 from the top rear of his door to the hood flap bottom and he measured 17 1/2" whereas when I measure mine it is 19 1/2". I think he may have measured to the bottom of the inside flap but that still shows a significant difference.

Unfortunately, I purchased the vynide hood in 2017 so there's no going back to complain.

Any other thoughts?
 
71TR6 said:
John & Steve,
Thanks so much for your comments and suggestions. I don't think I'm close to getting this to fit. I may have to compromise and get it as close as possible but I can't see a way it will fit correctly so the top edge of the side curtain fits under the outer hood flap.

Btw, when I snapped the picture, the rear bow was loose. Normally the top is drum tight with no puckers or sags. The entire top edge of the sidecurtain is parallel to the top, just 1" below where it should be. There's no way I can move the door sockets up enough to make up that difference since it would put the top of the sockets even with the top of the door roll. As far as the rear angle of the side curtain not matching with the hood, that doesn't make sense either since I can't see any adjustment that can fix that.

The only adjustment I can still make is to change the angle of the windscreen since it is angled slightly too much to the rear. Unfortunately, the 3A I have has fixed captive nuts where the mounting dovetail plate is attached so there isn't any adjustment possible. I can however elongate the countersunk holes in the plate vertically to get a fraction of a degree of windscreen movement forward. That might shift the rear of the sidecurtain up a bit but will exacerbate the socket placement on the door issue. A dilemna for sure.

I'm seriously starting to think the hood was not assembled or cut correctly since I really don't know where I can adjust to make up 1" of difference. I had a friend of mine measure his small mouth TR3 from the top rear of his door to the hood flap bottom and he measured 17 1/2" whereas when I measure mine it is 19 1/2". I think he may have measured to the bottom of the inside flap but that still shows a significant difference.

Unfortunately, I purchased the vynide hood in 2017 so there's no going back to complain.

Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...
I have always resorted to the saying " think outside the box".
If you need additional height of the side curtain--what about adding the needed height to the arms on the side curtains. This would involve cutting the bottom of the arm off and adding the needed length and weld the pieces back together. Or you could fabricate a socket on the end of the cut off end . That way you avoid welding on the side curtain.
Do not despair there are ways to get to the desired end. Just keep thinking!!
Charley
 
The search for a perfect fit on a side curtain is a sure path to madness.Look as happy as you can as you stand
in the rain fitting them up, glad you had set them in the boot at all !!
Mad dog
 
Heck just get the top of ridge under the flap you show in the picture, and it is a great fit. I bought a new set once and they are a bear. Anyways, I have a side curtain driving me crazy right now and a couple I am working on for my new project. The one problem I see a lot is the door will not close when the top and side-curtains are on together, a very ugly problem. So I hope your doors close well.

When you measured the distance between the top of the door and the top, I am not curtain where you and your friend measured from, but I would like to know so I can share mine. can you take a picture?

One more thing if you have a hard top the side- curtains hang about an inch lower.

steve
 
If you take another pic from the side, only with the bows properly set, I can give you an idea of what is possible to correct the fit.
 
The hood skin looks a bit slack to me. Have you tried to move the bows upward? You'll need to release the webbing to make any changes. The other issue could be the angle of the windscreen. The stanchions tend to get bent rearward over time as people grab ahold of the windscreen to haul their fat butts out of the seats. Assuming your stanchions are reasonably straight, it looks to me like the rear of the curtain either needs to go down slightly, or the forward mount could go up a tad. Perhaps set the curtain so it's leading edge is parallel to the windscreen and back just far enough that it does not make the door hard to close, and then adjust the fabric.
 
A bit of a delay getting back on this. The images attached show the side curtain in rough position with the hood taut. The gap between the top of the side curtain and the outer flap on the hood is visible. The second image shows the rear socket location on the door that is positioned as far up as I dare to go before it looks odd.

The top of the front edge is in the stantion groove but there is no way the bottom of the front edge will go into the groove- it almost appears like the windshield is raked back too far and isnt the same angle as the front of the side curtain. I removed the stantions to see of I can change the angle and, unfortunately, there is no adjustment since the attachment nuts are fixed in the scuttle.

Any other thoughts on what to try to adjust or do I just fix it in place as best I can?
IMG_4782.JPG
IMG_4783.JPG
 
Sorry I did not get back sooner on my side-screen fit measurement, I bought a couple of cars and have been busy sorting them out.

I think you are about there and looking like a better fit than mine. I fought the side-screen on my car some time now and taking a break until the weather warms up so I get fit the top better.

My first question is does the door close? When I look at the studs for the tonneu cover under the side-screen, I see a nice even parallel that maybe could come up fuzz on the back end. The side-sceen fits in front on the glass nice, and the top edge looks good, but might leak on the end in a strong rain, so to be perfect maybe get the top edge under the flap just a littl more and let the sidescreen pull away from the glass some to get the flap over the side-screen-----.but again leave it; your side-screen looks great.

steve
 
OK...looking at the pics, I believe your problem is with the top fit, not the side screen. The sidescreen matches the front stanchion just about perfectly. The top of the sidescreen is also level and near perfect.

Your mis-match is from the rear angle of the sidescreen compared to the top. The top angle does not match the rear of the sidescreen, and that is also causing the wrinkles in the quarter windows. The top should have been mounted farther back on the rear scuttle. The top would have to be pulled back on the scuttle, which will move the front anchor point back to an angle that matches the rear of the sidescreen. Pulling the angle back will remove the window wrinkles AND pull out the pucker over the middle of the sidescreen, because it will have more pull to the rear.

The bad news is that I know of no way to move the lift-a-dots to relocate the top without leaving holes. The good news is they would be low enough to not leak, if you did move it.
 
The careful craftsman that once made up, nice fitting tops and side curtains are a memory now.
Having fitted up maybe 20 replacement tops over the years on Tr3's, I can guarantee that the quality
has declined a lot since 2000. Today a fit as shown is pretty much all you can expect. Remember a top
will wear out over time and your next one will fit worse!!!!
I am just now getting a new top for my 3B, (long backorder)and very much dreading the installation process.
Mad dog
 
Looking at the latest pic, I also think it's the top and not the curtains. To me it looks like the top bows are too far rearward when they're up. If you lengthen the rear section of webbing the bows can rotate forward.
 
Thanks for everyone's responses. Slap my forehead and call me stupid it looks like it is the top and I think John may have pegged it. I think I should have positioned the rear most lift-the-dots further up on the hood. That would have pushed the bows forward as Herk mentioned which would have lowered the hood and closed up the gap at the top of the side curtains. It also would have moved the LTDs near the door a little further forward which would have made the hood angle more closely match the rear of the side curtains and eliminated the crinkle in the rear side windows. In addition, it would have eliminated the excess hood material in front of this LTD nearest to the door opening that flaps in the breeze and required me to cross drill the peg and put in a clevis pin to prevent it from unsnapping.

Sadly, the fix is moving the lift the dots and that would leave unsightly holes where they were. The other alternative is I buy a new hood which isn't in my budget after this long, costly restoration. At least now I think I have a good idea what the issue is so A) If I win the lottery, I can purchase a new hood and fix it and, B) anyone installing a hood in the future coming will hopefully learn from my issue and not make the same mistake. Take good notes Mad Dog!

Heartfelt thanks to everyone helping me bug this out!

Ron
 
I wish the solution was easier!?! If it's any consolation, I almost never drive with the sidescreens anyway...and your top fit looks fine by itself. Even a perfectly fitting top and sidescreens don't keep you dry in a real rain.
 
I took a hard look at your top in your pics. That top is different from the normal TR3 tops I have seen. Where did it come from?
To me a normal top has a pleat/ seam at each location of the top bows. On yours I see none. The only seam I see is a front to back seam plus a seam inches behind the windshield. So it looks like you are trying to custom fit a single flat piece of cloth. It does not work that way. Are there any pleats or seams at the locations of the bows?
The locations of your rear LTDs did not cause this problem.
Moving the strap locations on the bows might improve the fit. Big guess on the might.
Charley
 
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