TR2/3/3A TR3A Re-torquing Head Nuts

[banjojambo]

Just to clarify I have to remove and reinstall the rocker arms every time I want to re-torque the head nuts ? I have read conflicting instructions on whether to do it cold or hot . I am thinking of doing it cold and then checking it again after its hot . What is the proper torque 100 when cold and 105 when hot ? I just broke the engine in it at at 500 miles I notice this morning some white smoke and cylinders 1 and 2 the plugs are black and fouled I am assuming the head nuts need to be re-torqued at east I hope that's all it is Thank you for any help .

 

[TR3driver]

Just pop the rocker shaft off; it's only 4 nuts and IMO is easier than trying to fool with a crowsfoot or anything like that.

Book says to recheck them hot; personally I've never been able to tell that it made any difference. I think the main advantage to doing it hot is that a shop doesn't have to wait for the engine to cool down (meaning the retorque can be done immediately).

IMO the torque range given is to cover for minor errors in your torque wrench (and reading it). So always shoot for 102.5 ftlbs, and hope your wrench is calibrated within 2.5%.

I really doubt that retorquing is going to solve your problem; but might as well give it a try.

 

[CJD]

+1 on your fouling.

A head gasket is like a switch...either it is sealing or it is not. Once it is not, torqueing will never "re-seal" it.

I torque 100ftlbs initially. I always check later torqueing's for nut movement to 105ftlbs. Once a nut is set at 100, it should not break free checking at 105. It has to do with the difference between moving and static friction. Plus, initially the threads should be lightly oiled before torqueing. When you come back later, the bolt threads are pretty much metal on metal with no lube.

 

[sp53]

For the carbon on the front plugs that is normal in the beginning not to have everything correct, I would keep resetting the fuel mixture nut on the bottom of the jet. I would keep about 3 sets of plugs around until you get the mixture correct. Before any setting of the mixture nut, make sure your choke has fully returned and that the brass nut is up tight against the jet. I stick my hand in and push up to see it moves sometimes. I would also turn the brass nut up 2 flats when I replaced the plugs in the carbon up place. I would also drive the car around the block slow rather than let it idle too much in the beginning to help it not idle to rich.

The white smoke is usually water, but there is a lot of water in the air in Washington State and that might go away because an engine is really a big air compressor pulling in moisture, maybe that is all it is until things get moving. If you have water in the oil or oil in the water there is a mixing problem somewhere. Sometimes the water is difficult to see or find and you have to just crack open the oil pan bolt to see if water comes out because the dip stick is not long enough to reach that low. I think it was DOC that showed me that one. Anyways best of luck with it and you will figure it out; plus you have got it running and if worst comes to worst it will come apart easy because it all there in front of you.

 

[TR3driver]

The white smoke is usually water, but there is a lot of water in the air in Washington State and that might go away because an engine is really a big air compressor pulling in moisture,

Burning gasoline also produces water. Because the combustion process also burns a lot of oxygen, each gallon of gasoline produces roughly a gallon of water! (In addition to not quite a cubic foot of CO2.)

Usually, you can't see it, as it comes out still in invisible vapor form. But if your exhaust is cool, some of the vapor can condense to liquid water.

Look around on a cold morning, it's not at all unusual to see a car with water running out the tailpipe.

PS, I don't mean to reopen the debate; but I was taught that the only way to get an accurate torque reading is with the fastener still moving. If you stop and restart near the final torque value, you will get an inaccurate (too high) reading because of the "stiction" (static friction) effect that John mentioned. So I have always loosened each nut a bit, then turned back to the correct torque before going on to the next nut in the sequence. I've certainly had head gasket failures; but I don't believe any of them were from improper retorque procedure.

I did learn, the hard way, that it's important to check liner protrusion on both sides; never had a head gasket failure (with one I installed) since then.

 

[banjojambo]

I checked compression 1&2 cylinders @ 145 3&4 @c150 .When i first drove yesterday when I shut it off it made a loud sharp ping sound .

 

[Geo Hahn]

I think you will also have to double nut and remove the studs for the valve cover to get at two of the head nuts.

I use a paint pen on the end of the stud and the nut to make witness marks that let me see when I am done how much things moved in the re-torque.

In my experience you can have a coolant leak (into a cylinder) w/o significant compression loss appearing in a test. No ideas on the 'ping'.

...Usually, you can't see it, as it comes out still in invisible vapor form. But if your exhaust is cool, some of the vapor can condense to liquid water.

Look around on a cold morning, it's not at all unusual to see a car with water running out the tailpipe...

I always notice in movies when a car that is supposed to have driven a distance pulls up and water vapor is obviously coming out of the tailpipe.

 

[TR3driver]

In my experience you can have a coolant leak (into a cylinder) w/o significant compression loss appearing in a test. No ideas on the 'ping'.

I've also had head gaskets that only leak compression (not coolant), and only when you "get on" the throttle. The coolant is only at a few psi pressure, while cylinder pressures can hit 1000 psi (or higher) at full throttle.