• Hey Guest!
    British Car Forum has been supporting enthusiasts for over 25 years by providing a great place to share our love for British cars. You can support our efforts by upgrading your membership for less than the dues of most car clubs. There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Upgraded members don't see this banner, nor will you see the Google ads that appear on the site.)
Tips
Tips

TR2/3/3A TR3A no start

Share this page

Bremer

Bremer

Jedi Hopeful
Country flag
Offline
Very frustrating, I hope the collective forum wisdom can help.
It cranks and gives a puff every now and then as if it wanted to start. Usually the starter pinion then disengages, spinning up the starter motor.
Battery was in good condition (empty now), new starter cables, plug wires, plugs, condensor, distributor cap, rotor, coil, wire from coil to distributor. There`s gas in the float bowls which is a few weeks old. Timimg set to 4 deg BTDC.
It ran well about two weeks ago, but it was never a great starter. It has become a little cooler outside since.

Things I have tried:
Various choke and throttle settings, advancing/retarding timing, starting fluid, different coil, connecting hot battery terminal directly to coil, heating the intake with a heat gun, measured points gap (16 thou), cleaned points, rotor and cap contacts. None of this was worth a darn.

Any idea???
 
Any chance the plug wiring got swapped around when the cap & wires were replaced? Wouldn't hurt to double-check that the rotor is actually pointing to #1 when #1 is ready to fire (TDC with both valves closed).

Then based on recent experience, I'd change first the coil then the condenser. My nearly new coil acted very similar when it (partially) died.

You might also check the resistance of the plug wires, from the terminal inside the cap all the way to the terminal for the plug. If you find one that is much higher than the others, change the rotor.
 
Hi Bremer,
Put the motor at TDC, check to make sure rotor is pointing at #1.
If the motor is old it might have jumped time (jumped a tooth on timing chain).
Bill
 
Thanks for the ideas, keep 'em coming.
Just went out to check: Plug wires are on the cap as per the firing order (1-3-4-2). Resistances between cap terminal and plug are 200 to 300 ohms, with the longer wires having higher resistance. Positioned the engine at TDC for #1 cylinder: The rotor points at the #1 contact, and both #1 cylinder valves are closed. It probably could have jumped a tooth anyway, how would I check for that?
Another starting attempt will have to wait for the battery to be recharged.
 
Bremer said:
It probably could have jumped a tooth anyway, how would I check for that?
Click to expand...
Check the valves for #1 when #4 is at TDC ready to fire. They should be open by roughly the same amount, but if you're off by a tooth then one will be open much farther than the other.

Just because I didn't see where you mentioned; have you checked the valve clearances? Not likely, but having them too tight will make it hard to start.

Also, have you checked that you're actually getting spark to the plugs? Take a plug out, put its wire back on and hold the side against the rocker cover while cranking. You should see a nice fat spark jump every other revolution. If it's puny or not at all, you're looking at the problem.

One other thing, the stuff they sell for starting fluid these days doesn't seem to work very well for me. You might repeat that experiment using spray carb cleaner. Could be your main jets are full of dried up fuel (tho again it doesn't seem likely in just two weeks).
 
Thanks Randall, I'll check valve timing and spark at the plugs tomorrow. I did confirm spark at the distributor cap earlier today, though.
Valve lash was all in spec 200 miles ago when I prepared for emissions testing, but will check again.
Forgot to mention that the plugs were wet when I checked earlier, not surprising.
 
Check your low tension wire and low tension lead. Had one drive me nuts because the wire broke inside the insulation. The car ran great and all of a sudden nothing and suddenly be fine again.
 
Ok, an update:
Low tension wire is fine, resistance from the breaker plate to ground is less than 1 ohm and no change when I wiggled on the wire.
All plugs are producing a decent spark when removed and held to ground. This is with the new as well as the old coil. I wouldn't call it a nice fat spark, though.
The cam chain does not seem to have jumped a tooth as per Randall's description. Also, all valves are moving a fair amount, making a wiped out lobe as the root cause unlikely.
Today it "wants" to start even more than yesterday, giving some encouraging huffs and puffs, but eventually not enough to keep running. Telling from the temperature of the exhaust manifold tubes, these huffs and puffs are produced by cylinder 1 and 2 only.
 
Bremer,

Put the transmission in 3rd, release parking brake (make sure your on a flat area). Pull the distributor cap so you can see the rotor. Start by pushing the car back (this will turn the motor) to put tension on the chain, then forward (watching the pulley and rotor). They should be moving at the same time. If the crank moves first, you have a worn chain. The more lag, the more wear. If there's a lot of wear, it will jump a tooth. Hope this makes sense and good luck.

Bill
 
You seem to have eliminated a great many possibilities, yet it still seems like it could be something simple. Have you checked your points gap? If it decreases to 'barely there' it will both affect ignition and retard timing.
 
After you crank around continuously, and it still will not start, and you pull a plug right away, is the plug drenched wet with fuel?
Steve
 
I am convinced it is something simple.
I have so far checked the points gap for #1 cylinder, assuming it will be the same if the rotor is in a different position. Could the points gap change as the rotor rotates?
Steve, yes, the plugs are wet when I pull them. I cleaned them before putting them back in.
 
Bremer said:
Could the points gap change as the rotor rotates?
Click to expand...
The gap must be set with the rubbing block on one of the four peaks of the cam. It is possible for the peaks to vary (for example, the shaft might be bent), but not likely. And even if it were that badly bent (or whatever), you'd still have at least one cylinder trying to run.

If the plugs are wet, you're getting too much fuel. They don't work well when they are wet.

Also, wetting the plugs can easily lead to a condition known as glazing, where an invisible conductive layer forms on the insulator. You didn't mention how you cleaned them, but if it was anything short of abrasive blast, I'd still try a different set of plugs.

Although I've not had trouble with it myself, given all the stories about phase separation in oxygenated fuel, I might try some fresh gas as well.
 
So you have got spark out and the plugs, and you have not had the distributor out of the vehicle since last time you drove it, so the distributor is not out 180, and you have wet plugs. I would try a known good powerful coil and assume that it is weak spark. A couple of weeks ago, I had two bad coils in row. They were old coils that I have had for years, and I have used them in the past, but for some reason they both started just working some of the time. I switched the coil and the cap from a good runner and it fired right up. Perhaps the combination of weak spark and a high setting on the float bowls or jets will not ignite the fuel. I would do the coil first. Yes get clean new plugs until you sort this out. Peter K suggested some Bosh plugs. I remember I had some and I think they made a difference also.
steve
 
Thanks for everyone's input.
Another update: I poured fresh fuel into the float bowls. The best it would do was a few seconds of sustained, but rough running on the front two cylinders before dying, which is an improvement. Not sure why the rear two aren't contributing.
I also checked for lag between the crank and the rotor as well as the valve action as described by Bill. I could not detect any lag.
Randall, I cleaned the plugs first with a rag then gave them a good scrubbing with a wire brush. Getting new plugs today might be difficult since it's Thanksgiving here.
"known good coil": Well, at a time where store bought new coils can fail right out of the box, everything is suspect. I have two coils, one that came with the car but is not the coil that it had when it rolled out of the factory, and one brand new Borg Warner E502. I have tried them both with seemingly no difference.
Gotta recharge the battery now...
 
HALLELUJA!

In short, the (new) condensor was the problem. It lasted about 300 miles. When I swapped it for the old one, it fired right up, even with an almost discharged battery.
Not sure how this explains that only the two front cylinders were firing, though. Going forward, the condensor will be higher on the list of things to check.
Thanks everyone again, your comments were very helpful.
As happy as I am to have found the problem, my wife is mad at me now for spending so much time in the garage this long weekend...
 
Back
Top