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TR2/3/3A TR3A dash rail

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NutmegCT

NutmegCT

Great Pumpkin
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A bit of a mystery.

Several years ago I ordered the dash "grip handle" from Moss (?). I realize it's a "denture buster", but on the rare occasion that I have a passenger, I ask them to remove their false teeth.

:jester:

When I installed the handle, I was puzzled that the supplied screws didn't go all the way into the rail. Plus, the mount tabs of grip handle are protruding in front of the top of the glove box door, even when screwed completely up against the rail.

Note the pictures: the dash rail has screws (not LTD fasteners for tonneau cover). Not a big deal, as I don't have/use a tonneau cover.

To see the rail itself, I cut away some of the vinyl. The underside of the rail, where the grip is screwed, seems to show a steel assembly - not wood. The screws are tightly in and won't turn more, but they're obviously not "all the way in".

Is this right? The grip handle screws look like wood screws, but they sure don't hold the grip handle correctly "flush" with the dash rail. Can't open the glove box with the handle mounted.

Thanks.
Tom
 
Here's what lies under the vinyl at one of the mount points. Looks a bit "creative" -
 
Post 60k cars have four holes where the screws go into. If you remove the capping, you should be able to locate them. As far as the Moss handle goes, I had the same interference problem and wound up grinding the mounting down to get it to fit. I just assumed it was because I recovered everything in leather which is thicker then the vinyl.

Also, my screws look different. The heads are more rounded, and they sink into the handle farther.
 
Thanks Art. Mine is pre-60K.

Here's a picture of the handle itself (bottom side).

Note the "wood screws" and counter-sunk mounting holes in the handle. The screw head fits perfectly in that counter-sunk hole.

Seems like the screws - and possibly the handle itself - are just plain wrong. Shouldn't the screws be sheet metal screws?
 
It looks like maybe those wood screws have a shoulder that is too long, as it appears that your screws aren't going in deep enough. Try using screws without any shoulder. IIRC, the pre-60k cars just have a piece of wood underneath the capping. The handle could actually be put anywhere (within reason) on the assembly line. When I restored my car, I actually put on a post 60k body and the holes in the original capping from the pre-60k body were about an inch off from where they are on the later body.

You'll probably still might have to grind down the handle mountings so it doesn't interfere with the glove box door.
 
My pre-60k has a little metal bracket that accepts metal self tapping screws (not shouldered wood screws). The metal bracket slides around the holes in the tub cowl, under the capping. I can get you a picture if you need...

Jer
 
Here is how mine is attached on my earely 1958 TR3A (TS 27489 LO) with the wood screws into the wooden top-rail.
 

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Thanks gentlemen.

So we're saying I should have a *wooden* (not metal) dash rail?

T.
 
I think you should have the clip nuts, as Jer described. That is what TS39781LO had. In fact, looking at your photo, I am almost certain I can see the corner of one of those clip nuts, peeking out from behind the vinyl inside the larger oval hole.

The wood rail has the holes in a slightly different location than the later metal body does.

The proper screws for the clip nuts are "Parker Kalon" which aren't quite the same as sheet metal screws. But I think you should be able to get by with a #10 flat head sheet metal screw, 3/4" long.
 

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Here's some more pictures.

The clip slides into the rectangular holes. The same holes are on the drivers side, and mine had clips in both sides -almost like built in spares.
 

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This is very interesting, and the pictures are a great help. But my dense brain is having trouble seeing how these "movable" clips could hold my grip handle solidly.

I can see how the clips might go in those "slots", but what holds the clips tight, so the grip handle doesn't move around?

Also, are we saying that the two pairs of holes I see in my rail now, which match the holes in the grip handle, are not to be used?

Thanks.
Tom
 
Tom,

The clips slide into the dash so the flat side is down (on the underside of the dash) while the smaller/threaded/slot faces up (and on top of the dash). (The clip sandwiches the dash.) The screw goes (in this order) through the handle, then through the capping, then through the larger hole of the clip, then through the dash, and then threads into the smaller hole of the clip. It will secure both the capping and the handle when installed this way. Your picture seems to indicate the handle was secured to the capping, which will not be very strong.

I hope this helps. If you find some wood under that capping -that's a whole 'nother thing.

Jer
 
Thanks Jer.

Just what is the "capping"?

Is the capping the rail? or is the capping the vinyl cover on the rail? or ...?

I get the feeling there's a lot of variables here. My car should have a wooden dash rail, right?

But it doesn't. The steel rail which I have, may have slots for the clips hidden under the vinyl. The clips (which I don't have) will need different screws than the wood screws I have now. And the two pairs of holes in the steel rail are not to be used?

The foot bone's connected to the ... ankle bone ...

Tom
 
The capping is the piece that juts out from the dash. It's a piece of aluminum that is covered by vinyl. If you remove all the lift-the-dot pegs on top, the screws underneath, and the vent pull, it'll come right off.

I don't know when they stopped the wooden rail (my pre 60k body had it) but it obviously was before 60k. It looks like you don't have one. It also looks like the previous owner just drilled holes where ever to attach the handle, and not where it's supposed to go.

Remove the capping and you'll have a better idea of what's going on. You can check to to if you're missing any clips, etc.
 
Tom-

Based on your commision number, I don't think you should have wood inside the dash - so those wood screws are wrong for the car. My project car is roughly 435xx, can't remember exactly but is earlier than yours and did not have the wood.

Your pull handle appears to look a little different than what I have, but that may just be a trick of the picture/my poor memory.

Randy
 
Thanks all. In the five years I've owned the car, I've been learning the meaning of "bitsa" more and more.

The wiring under the dash and in the engine bay - what an adventure in "individualism". Red patched into brown/black, white patched into green, disconnected bullet connectors, etc. But everything electrical works.

Here's my ersatz solution to the grip handle issue: Not wanting to remove the vent pull, to remove the rail/capping, to remove the vinyl, to search for the clips, I just used shorter screws in the pre-existing holes.

And the glove box door now opens. (I guess now I need to buy a glove box!)
 
Tom - Just for info, if you re-check the position of my grab bar in the photo above with your photo, you will notice that my grab bar (red vinyl photo) is more to the center of the TR than where yours is located. Mine is the original grab bar secured with the original wood screws (rechromed in 1990) into the original holes in the original wooden piece that I have going across the top of the dash in my early 1958 TR3A.
 
The position of your bar is interesting Don. My 58 is not like that mine centers over the glove box. I am glad you posted that because you are the original owner and I doubt if someone else had shown me that I would have listened. When I restored my 61, I used a 58 parts car for the rail and handle thinking they were the same. I recover the rail and everything. Then when I went to install it, I noticed the rails are different. The wood one is not as deep by about Âľ of an inch and the handle would not the glove box open. I had saved the 61 one stuff and recapped the rail and used that handle even though it was pitted, and now all the holes line up and the glove box opens. The cars are different.
 
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