TR2/3/3A TR3 timing and pertronix

[TRclassic3]

OK, most likely a simple question. I am attempting to check/set timing. I have searched the archives and I think the following, posted by Harry last year sums up the generally accepted procedure. My question is, obviously with Pertronix I cannot see points opening or closing, so will a continuity light still work in the same fashion? Any other tips when checking/setting timing with Pertronix installed?

Harry's comments:

I set the initial ignition timing with the engine actually not running. #1 piston TDC on compression stroke, #4 piston TDC intake just starting to open. Hole in fan pulley aligns with pointer. Set point gap or check to make sure it's correct. Brass end of rotor arm should point at #1 pushrod tube. Turn the micro adjusting nut to the third division on the scale. slacken clamp bolt on distributor and turn counter clockwise until the points are closed. Connect 12 volt lamp in parallel with points. (one lead to ground and the other to the low tension wire. turn ignition to on (DO NOT ENGAGE STARTER). Turn distributor body slowly clockwise until lamp lights (points open) and tighten clamp bolt. Turn the adjusting nut until one extra division appears on the scale. This should give a base setting of 4 degrees advanced. Start it up and adjust on the road (not to far from base though) The adjusting nut when turned clockwise when viewed from the end of the thread will retard, counterclockwise advances. Idle rpm is 500.

 

[MadMarx]

For the Pertronix you need a strobo light. Start the engine and adjust while running the timing.

Cheers
Chris (Pertronix user)

 

[Geo Hahn]

For the Pertronix you need a strobo light...

Pretty good idea even if you're still using points as you can see what's going on at high RPMs where timing is esp important.

 

[TRclassic3]

Re: TR3 timing /pertronix/rough running/SEX

OK, sex has nothing to do with this but I wanted to get your attention.
I have somhow managed to make things worse. This all started with wanting to get the idle down from 1400. Among the suggestions was to check the timing. Before being informed that I needed to use a timing light when using a pertronix, I had attempted to find TDC for #1 cylinder and found in the process that the PO had made hash marks which I now assume was so he could use the timing light. This is all I had done, other that poke around a little in the distributor with a continuity light. So today I started it up and it is running very rough,coughing, occassional back fire and also backfire from the carbs. What did I do? I really hadn't changed anything with what I had done, but must bde somthing. I was thinking it was timing so I acquired a light and checked where the PO's marks were falling and found that if was at the center mark.
also, the idle varies. That is, it will run rough then smooth for 10 seconds then go back rough.

I'm stuck. Is it timing causing the current problem or something else. What is best way to diagnose. Also could use help in knowing the step by step procedure to verify/set timing when using pertronix. Their info simply says to time per ususal method.

thanks

 

[PeterK]

Re: TR3 timing /pertronix/rough running/SEX

If you have a spare distributor plate with a set of points handy ... Well short of that:

Determine where TDC is: Remove the front plug (that's cylinder #1). Turn over the engine by hand until the hole drilled in the back of the crank pulley (oh yeah, there's a little hole drilled in the back part of the crank pulley from the factory. Find that and mark it with something bright, like a dab of white paint. I'll start again. Turn the engine over by hand until the bright white dab of paint is almost straight up, just around 11 o'clock. Now put your finger over the #1 sparkplug hole and slowly turn the engine by hand clockwise (I grab the fan) and you will feel pressure on your finger tip as the white paint mark starts to points to 12 o'clock. You will also feel the resistance from turning the engine lessen.

Now remove the dist cap and notice where the rotor is pointing; at this position it should point to the #1 plug wire. (the #1 wire is the top wire on the left looking from above.) If it doesn't, you will need to turn the distributor (loosen the clamp and turn it, then tighten clamp) until it points roughly to the #1 spark plug. The is roughly, more or less, the point of static timing, give or take a couple of degrees. TR3s normally are static timed at 4 degrees advanced; this means 4 degrees (out of the 360 degrees in a circle) BEFORE the 12 o'clock position (like the little hand position @11:36PM) is when the rotor should point to #1. The little knob on the side of the distributor should be set 1/2 way between the A and R marks on the distributor housing. The 1/2 way point also has a mark on the part of the vacuum advance that moves in and out; see the tick marks? The center or 1/2 point is about 4 ticks from the left. You should turn this to the half-way before spinning the distributor. I think each tick mark roughly equals 1 degree in advance (or retard.)

Your car should start at this position. Fine tune the settings by rotating the knob towards A or R (see the arrows A<--->R?)

This should get you going enough to use the timing light.

Hope that I didn't totally screw up your car. It's much easier to do than to explain.

(and popping and sputtering is usually incorrect timing)

 

[karls59tr]

Re: TR3 timing /pertronix/rough running/SEX

If a fast road cam is installed do you still use 4 degrees BTDC?

 

[TRclassic3]

Re: TR3 timing /pertronix/rough running/SEX

Peter

Thanks for the response. The hole in the pulley is not TDC. I was going through the prcoess of identifying TDC by feeling the pressure in #1 when I discoverred the marks had been made on the pulley at TDC. I had moved the fan both forward and backward in my attempt to get right at TDC(would moving the fan counter clockwise screw things up?). It seemed to be set right in the middle of the 4 or 5 hash marks. I then checked the rotor poisition and it was pointed a t #1. I poked around in the distributor with a continuity light before being informed that it would not help identify when the spark was sent when ewuipped with pertronix. I then put things back together and that is when the rough running, back fire, and back fire from carbs stated. I got a timing light and checked with that. The pointer was centered in the middle of the hash marks.
Is timing still the most likely culprit? should I try moving the advance dial? I just don't understand what I did that would have changed things.

Thanks

 

[bluemiata90]

Re: TR3 timing /pertronix/rough running/SEX

Ed,
I just got done with installing a Pertronix system in my 61 TR3 and I hate to say this, but the markings from the P.O. who had points in it were all off. I never did figure out if it was the Pertronix system that changed the timing or the P.O. marked it incorrectly, but what I did was got it started and timed it as close as possible with a strobe light and then the final setting by ear. This was the way we used to set our old chevys when we were younger after installing new cams, etc.
After using the strobe, if it's not running smooth, move the dist. slowly till the engine smooths out. If it starts to run real rough, back the dist. off a little. This is a trial and error, listen at the exhaust for popping, if it's popping, back the dist. off a little. If you get it smoothed out, drive it and listen for pinging upon exceleration. If pinging, back the dist. off a little. I KNOW THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY, but if the timing marks are not lining up, it's a start. My TR3 is running very smooth and strong by this method. Older cars have had lots of interesting things done to them over the years, so sometimes you have to improvise. Once again, I KNOW THIS NOT THE CORRECT WAY, but in many cases it works. Good Luck

 

[PeterK]

Re: TR3 timing /pertronix/rough running/SEX

Since nothing has really changed, try:

? Make sure the magnet sleeve tight on the distributor shaft and all the way down (If yuo pulled it off)
? Try running the red wire that goes from the Pertronix to the coil directly to the battery +
? Tighten the wires in the cap, inspect the center conductor.
? Change the rotor.
? Replace Pertronix with points and condensor.

Also where is the hole in the pulley in relation to the hash marks?

You also could have a vacuum advance stuck or not working. Put a paint mark on the advance dial (for reference) then unscrew it a few revolutions (there's a wire clip that holds it on.) See if you can pull the advance out slightly from the distributor. It should slide about 3/16" inch without binding as it moves the mounting plate that the pertronix is mounted to.

After any change, make sure to return all settings to where they were before the change unless the change fixes the problem.