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TR2/3/3A TR3 Steering rack conversion

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emmett1010

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Hi All:
I just received my new Moss catalogue.
It has a TR3 Steering rack conversion pt #667-245.
Does anyone know anything about this unit?
Is the geometry correct? Whose rack do they use?
Is it made in the US, or perhaps China?
I love the price--$695
Emmett
 
I just got my catalog also and see it listed there, although there is no listing on their website. The price is right, but they give no indication of whether the engine driven fan can be retained or how they are handling the control head situation. I have a rack & pinion in my TR3, and it required that the engine driven fan be removed and replaced with an electric fan. I also had to deal with the directional and horn issues. I opted for the MGA self-canceling turn signal mounted in the dash, and rigged up coiled wire to wrap around the steering column for the horn. Also, if you don't have a split column, you'll have to purchase their column kit for an addtional $246.

If you're thinking about this conversion, ask them about the fan and control head issues.

Edit: BTW, out of all of the mods that I did to my TR3 (and there are many), the Rack conversion ranks up there as the best by far! It transforms the steering. :driving:
 
Thanks Art:
I've been a little hesitant to do many modifications, and lose some originality, but I either have to rebuild my steering box, or change it.
I've read that the original unit worked fine with narrow bias belt tires, but the grip and width of todays radials really worked a hardship on the old steering design.
I have the one piece steering box, and need to buy the upper shaft, and housing from the two piece design. If anyone has one to sell, please PM me about it.
Thanks for the endorsement, I'm going to purchase the unit, if I hear no negative feedback.
Emmett
 
Emmett, I won't say anything bad about the Moss conversion since I have no experience with it.

But I have to say that I feel the original box can work well with "todays radials". I've been running high performance 205/55-15 tires for quite a few years now, with the standard box, and have no complaints about it. My opinion is that those who rave about the R&P conversions have simply never driven a TR3 that didn't have a misadjusted, worn out steering box. Frankly, I was amazed myself when I rebuilt my box (along with a careful rebuild of the entire steering and front suspension plus a few upgrades), the result worked great.

And driving both a Stag with the power steering pump disabled; and a friend's TR4 (with factory R&P) has done nothing to convince me otherwise.
 
The only "problem" I have with the original steering box is when I am stopped and need to maneuver. Other than this, I am happy and I also run lower profile 205/60-15 radials.

I would not like to replace the column, eliminate the mechanical fan, or have to rig up the directionals and horn.
 
TR3driver said:
My opinion is that those who rave about the R&P conversions have simply never driven a TR3 that didn't have a misadjusted, worn out steering box. .
Click to expand...

Randall, what you say is most likely correct, as we have many TR3s in our club, and some of them have awful steering. However, there is one memeber who repairs LBCs for a living and has a daily driver TR3 and feels as you do. I've driven his car, and will admit that the steering is very good...but I don't feel it is as good as the R&P conversion on my TR3. I've owned a TR4, a TR4A, and a TR6 and IMO, the steering conversion on my TR3 is better then those. It more closely resembles the steering on my Miata with the exception that the TR3 is <span style="font-weight: bold">easier to steer at slow speeds </span>then the Miata...and this is with a 15" steering wheel as opposed to the original 17" wheel.

When doing my restoration, I was faced with either re-doing all of the original steering, or opt for the R&P. Although I wound up spending more money on the R&P conversion with all of the hidden costs, I'm glad I did.
 
I believe this rack has been marketed for a while at Moss Europe. Good to see that Moss is working to get those items to the U.S. as well.

Randy
 
martx-5 said:
It more closely resembles the steering on my Miata with the exception that the TR3 is <span style="font-weight: bold">easier to steer at slow speeds </span>then the Miata...
Click to expand...
So, has the power steering on your Miata been disabled then? Or is your conversion a lot more than 2.25 turns lock-to-lock?

I'm sorry, I just don't believe manual steering, even R&P can match the (nice) power on the Miata.

BTW, I could (and did) parallel-park my TR3A with one hand. The TR3 isn't quite as slick yet, but I've not taken time to redo the front suspension and it's pretty badly worn.
 
I have built several steering rack conversions for my TR-3 friends, and after seeing the Moss conversion in their new catolog, I think that it is a real bargain, very affordable. Bill C., Mesa,Az.
 
Through the miracle of internet web-thievery, here is (I think) a picture of the kit fitted to a car:
TR3B_Briggs_27.JPG


Also, the installation instructions and product details are on the Moss Europe site here: rack install pdf

For anyone who has considered this installation (including me), I think this will be a very popular item.

Randy
 
TR3driver said:
I'm sorry, I just don't believe manual steering, even R&P can match the (nice) power on the Miata.
Click to expand...

Not all Miatas came with power steering. My Miata is a '92 and has the manual steering that was readily available from the factory in the earlier cars. The later cars had a power steering delete option, but not too many were sold that way. I forget what the turns lock-to-lock are on it, but it's slightly more then the power steering versions, probably another 1/2 turn.
 
It really looks like an easy bolt-on (except the apron r&r) and the price is certainly right @ $695.

I agree that it's nice to see Moss bring stuff from the U.K. catalog, which is much more comprehensive than the Moss UK catalog. Also nice that we can buy this stuff without paying the esxtra $$ for shipping across the pond.
 
I have to agree with Randall, I've owned a GT6, a Spitfire and a Jag XKE. When I bought my TR3 the steering was terrible but since I had the full original steering system rebuilt it's great with no complaints when comparing it to the R&P on the other cars.
 
Interesting. The picture that Randy posted and Moss Euro pdf look like the kit that I just installed exactly. I got mine from:

British Auto Restorations LLC
2136 Patterson Ave SW
Roanoke, VA 24016-2512
Phone: (540) 989-5121

This is also where Art got his. I believe that they're sourcing the kit from the same supplier. British Auto Restorations' price is 995, including electric fan and new hardware for replacing the stock fan's base on the crank pulley.

After reading the Moss directions, the big difference that i can see between the two kits is that the the Moss instructions claim that it may be possible to use the new conversion kit with the stock 4 blade fan, although "they have experienced clearance issues" in doing so. I don't believe that the kit will fit with the stock fan at all, and trying to do so would result in frustration and/or worse.

Conclusion- given the dramatic price difference, it's definitely a better buy from Moss, although you will still have to shell out $ for the following:

electric fan + associated wiring harness
new hardware for crank pulley (short nuts & bolts and retaining nut.)
solution for control head- either going the MG self canceling switch way (Art's solution), or just living w/o the self canceling feature (my solution).

Still, given those extra costs I believe the Moss kit would still end up being cheaper than getting it elsewhere.

-Gavin
 
The kit that I got from British Auto Restorations <span style="font-weight: bold">is not</span> the same kit as what Moss is offereing. I did get that a couple of years ago, so maybe the guy in Roanoke has changed suppliers. I believe the kit that I have originated from Racetorations in the UK. My rack appears to be farther forward then the Moss unit. It looks like they moved it back so the fan could clear. On mine there is no way you can run the engine driven fan.
 
martx-5 said:
The kit that I got from British Auto Restorations <span style="font-weight: bold">is not</span> the same kit as what Moss is offering.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have clarified that. The Roanoke guys did tell me that they were sourcing the kit from a new supplier, thus the drop in price from when you bought it, Art.
 
angelfj said:
Why not power steering on the TR3A?
Click to expand...
For me, this image is why not.
frombehindwheelon.jpg
 
Just to clarify the discussion a little - the picture I found on the web of an installed rack didn't specify where the kit came from (its a US website too). Visually, it looks like the same setup to me.

Randy
 
I got mine from Racetorations in the UK. Darryl is a nice guy and ships thge system very quickly. His allows for the fan to remain in the car.

As for the original steering box. Mine was fine just needed some new parts but the R&P seemed to be the way to go. Held on to the original though just in case someone desired the original system.
 
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