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TR2/3/3A tr3 rear main

sp53

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On my 61 tr3 I did something wrong or perhaps the rear main was going to leak anyway, but does anyone know if the leak with get smaller after the engine breaks in? It has about 700 miles on it and the leak is three timesthe size of my 58. I understand how an oil drip can look huge on a concrete floor, but I do wish I would of tried one of those seal improvement deals, but when I did this engine I only remember hearing stories about rear main improvement problems. I think I heard Randall suggest once that if the oil is a little low the leak often slows down.
 

tinman58

Jedi Knight
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If there is low oil the leak does get smaller. If there is no oil in the engine it will still leak a little.
 

PeterK

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Just don't taste the puddle. I remember a Click N Clack story when the puddle that appeared overnight in the garage turned out to be from the cat (which was accidentally locked out of the house and in the garage over night!) HA
 
OP
S

sp53

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I guess the answer I was looking for was that after break in the crank case pressure is less, and if the engine is a quart low on oil the crank spiral will through less oil out the back, but no, so you all flunked the test and will have detention for a week.
 

TexasKnucklehead

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LOL

Perhaps the difference between oil still leaking when there is none, and a leak that gets better over time, is attitude. The cost to change attitude is not quantitative.

If it makes you feel better, mine has 0 miles on it, is full of oil, and also leaks.
 

Geo Hahn

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...if the engine is a quart low on oil the crank spiral will through less oil out the back...

FWIW -- I never top mine up to the fill line, seems to work out best about midway between the lines (which I think are about 2 quarts apart).
 

Jerry

Luke Skywalker
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I agree with Geo. I always left my old TR3A 1/2 quart low and there was a lot less leaking. Don't know why but it worked.

jerry
 

TR3driver

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when I did this engine I only remember hearing stories about rear main improvement problems.
Might be worth mentioning that there is more than one conversion on the market now. The older conversion was the one with all the problems, and it required having the scroll ground off of the crankshaft (so impossible to go back to the stock seal without replacing the crankshaft). At one time there were even copies of this conversion (which AFAIK had the same drawbacks and potential to leak far worse than the original).

The new version does not require machining the crankshaft (although it is suggested to polish the new seal area) and actually keeps the original seal functional. It basically adds a second, high performance lip type seal outboard from the original seal. I have not heard of anyone having problems with the new conversion. In the US, this conversion is only available through A.R.E https://the-vintage-racer.com//index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&sort=20a&page=2 or TRF https://trf.zeni.net/favourites/10.php


Unfortunately, there is no way to install it without removing the crankshaft, which in turn requires removing the engine from the car.
 

59Rob

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Since I'm rebuilding my engine this sounds like something worthwhile. Looking at the link it doesn't say it's for a TR3, can I assume that it is or that it's generic enough to work on one? Also it says $20 core? what would the core be? you're not replacing anything, you're adding an extra seal aren't you?
 

TR3driver

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Since I'm rebuilding my engine this sounds like something worthwhile. Looking at the link it doesn't say it's for a TR3, can I assume that it is or that it's generic enough to work on one? Also it says $20 core? what would the core be? you're not replacing anything, you're adding an extra seal aren't you?
Originally, Joe was reconditioning and machining the original seal (the pair of curved cast aluminum plates) to hold the additional seal. That is the "$20 core". But they had trouble with many people just paying the core charge and not returning the old seal; there weren't enough used original seals to go around. So now you have to provide the original seal to be machined first; or else pay for a new casting (that both implements the old seal and holds the new Viton seal). See this note for another version of this explanation. AFAIK Joe is doing the same thing (announced on another forum), he just hasn't updated the web site yet (probably too busy working on his racing TR4).

The seal conversion is suitable for all TR2-TR4A. I don't know if it will fit a Ferguson TEA-20, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does :smile:
 

59Rob

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Hmm, I guess I misunderstood how this worked. I thought it was basically an additional "coller" type seal that went behind the factory seal, so I now gather it's a direct replacment not an addition. So I gather I want the HP599, not sure why the site prices is $100 + $20 core and the last link you sent has $229. I liked the first link better :eagerness:
 

TR3driver

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The second seal is added by machining the original scroll seal to carry the additional Viton lip-type seal. The scroll part of the original seal is kept, but reduced in width slightly.

The kit for $100 + $20 core on the first site is the equivalent of TRF's HP600. You can go ahead and order from the first site if you want, but I'm fairly certain the price has gone up and you will have to supply an original seal to be modified. A.R.E. is a one-man garage shop, and Joe (the owner) runs it only in his spare time (mostly to help finance his TR racing habit :smile: ). (Meaning that the web site doesn't get updated very often.) Because of that, his markups tend to be lower as well (hence the higher prices from TRF).

If you don't have an old seal to be modified, then the HP599 kit is the one you want. I believe Joe sells those as well, but you will have to contact him for a current price (and to order).
 

PatGalvin

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Just in case anyone else is interested, I just purchased a new rear main seal ("the Old Modern Seal conversion") from Revington TR. I had my crank scroll removed and turned to 2.5" before Joe produced this new miracle seal, and I'm not interested in trading out my crank and having it all balanced yet again. So, I'll report back in a couple months as to how well the Revington TR seal works as compared to the cheaper seal I purchased from another vendor. I'm hoping for the best on this, as my rear seal leaks badly on my new rebuild. Was very disappointing when I first started up the engine for it's test run and drip drip drip.

Pat
 

TR3driver

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PatGalvin

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Pat, be sure to check out the tips on Tony Drews' site on how to make the seal work. You're already behind the curve, as the 2.5" dimension has been increased several times (I was told 2.520"). There are some other things to look at mentioned here https://personal.linkline.com/koblinger/trsc/tech%20articles/mainseal.htm
Thanks Randall. Much appreciated. I am optimistic - the RevingtonTR Seal should work as they require machining to 2.5 inches (63.50mm, +0.1mm, -0.0mm). I am at 63.5mm exactly. I've attached two web links (seal and instructions), in case anyone else is interested. It wasn't that expensive, given how important this is!! I'll of course let you all know how this works, if it works.

https://www.revingtontr.com/shop/pr...8WPNRMQLJXFWVF&CarType=TR3&ProductID=RTR1026K

https://www.revingtontr.com/shop/pr...MAIN BEARING OIL SEAL KIT RTR1026 issue 4.pdf
 

martx-5

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Personally, I think people are too quick to condemn the original seal design, when it can, in fact be made to work quite well. When I came to this part of my restoration, I thought seriously about going with a lip seal, but the horror stories going around at the time about mis-cut cranks shied me away from using it, especially since new dimensional data concerning the centralizing mandrel came to light, and besides, before I took the engine apart, the rear main was not leaking very much at all. The end result is that after about 2k miles on the engine, there are no leaks (knock on wood) from the rear main.

I realize that there are newer lip seal conversions out there that address the previous issues and I'm sure that they work just fine, but, the original "seal" can be made to work just fine also.
 

PatGalvin

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Hi Art,
You make a very good point. When I was rebuilding my engine, I just assumed the "modern seal conversion" was better, and bought a cheap kit and delivered it with the other parts to my machine shop. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have done this. Obviously, once the crank scroll is ground off, there is no turning back. If I was to do it over, I'd either go with original scroll seal or go with the Alexander Racing solution. I'll be interested to hear about how your rear main seal holds up, after 10 or 20K miles. Good info for the collective here.
Thanks

Pat
 
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