TR2/3/3A tr3 head gasket

[TFB]

Speeding at about 90mph for a short run I noticed huge smoke plums when I slowed down,coolant spray in engine compartment,and after a tow home wet 3and 4 plugs.
So i am looking for head gasket recommendations.I think its 86mm but need to verify.
Thanks
Tom

 

[Popeye]

Smarter folks than me will probably chime in, however I just bought a Payen gasket from Rimmers. Cost was high ($60-ish plus shipping charges). But I figure a good brand on critical components is good insurance (or compensation for my incompetence? )

 

[TFB]

Thanks for reply.
Is payen a solid copper or typical copper sandwiched over composite?
Rimmers seems pretty reasonable for their head rebuild kit but the shipping time is slow compared to Moss.
I cant order until I get stuck head off.Rocking the motor with a 4' bar in the exhaust port wont budge it.hoping to avoid pulling the hood to attach to my chain hoist.I worry about the stress on the piston with the rope trick.
Tom

 

[DrEntropy]

Is payen a solid copper or typical copper sandwiched over composite?

The Payen gaskets are now composite, got one and it FAILED immediately. Rimmer Bros. supplied us with a copper clad one.

 

[Hamish Racing]

I think there is talk the some of the inlet exhaust studs can go straight through and lock on the head studs. Worth a web search and or taking out the inlet exhaust studs to remove that possibility for the stuck head.

 

[TFB]

Thanks.I would have never thought of that,but Ihave it raised about an 1 1/2" so some creative prying ,some blocks and wedges I should have it off shortly.
What gasket are you running in your race car?
Tom

 

[Popeye]

Is payen a solid copper or typical copper sandwiched over composite?

Photo of my Payen gasket from Rimmers (purchased about a month ago). Looks to be solid copper (no “sandwich” evident when looking at the edge).

 

[TFB]

I got the head off and my gasket looks like your pic but its not solid copper,evident by the blow out spot at the narrow part between 3&4.
Solid copper may have leaked but I dont think it would have blown out like the clad.But I didnt build the long block and when I checked the bolts before finishing the motor some seemed over tight or frozen ,so it was never re torqued after start up,so I cant really blame the gasket.
BTW my TRF manifold gaskets werent leaking but they crumbled like crackers when removed.
Tom

 

[Hamish Racing]

Thanks.I would have never thought of that,but Ihave it raised about an 1 1/2" so some creative prying ,some blocks and wedges I should have it off shortly.
What gasket are you running in your race car?
Tom

I believe it’s a full composite gasket similar to this.

Racetorations Composite Cylinder Head Gasket - TR2-4A & Morgan +4 - Racetorations

Suitable for TR2-4A & Morgan +4 engines when fitted with 86-89mm dia. pistons Modern composite gasket featuring a 'SAC' track around the external and internal edges to provide extra sealing Bores of the gasket are shaped to mimic the usual head modifications to increase gas flow between the...

www.racetorations.co.uk

but I have 89mm liners that have been machine decked to the block so I run without the traditional fig of 8 gasket this may affect the choice.

 

[TFB]

Thanks, that looks like a superior gasket,and some interesting thoughts on the flat solid copper gaskets.I sent them an email to see if they have a USA distributor.
Tom

 

[CJD]

If you have more trouble, Randall always recommended soldering a copper wire around the cylinder bores. It crushes and ensures a perfect seal.

 

[TFB]

Thanks CJD,I remember Randalls posts and his remedy,along with all the other great info he provided,but for now I am going to use the Moss gasket kit which should be here tomorrow.
Hopefully it will hold with proper assembly and follow up torquing.
Two other questions
Prefered head gasket sealer.right now I am thinking "copper kote high tac" spray thats on the shelf
and sealer for bottom threads on one cylinder head stud that pulled out,permatex#2 planned .
Tom

 

[CJD]

I've been using Wellseal, which is what Triumph recommended. It was developed during WW2 to hold the Merlin engine together as it pushed to over 2000hp. The Merlin uses the same wet liner construction, only with aluminum heads.

 

[TFB]

Thanks,I wonder if the wellseal formula of today is the same as 80 years ago or like paint has some of the good stuff been replaced.
One of the best head gasket sealers for my flathead mororcycles composite head gaskets was good,with lead silver paint.
Thanks again
tom

 

[Sarastro]

Can you get Wellseal in the US? I would be interested to know where.

Be sure to check the head and block for flatness, once you have the head off.

I've always just used the Lucas gaskets from BP Northwest, with a spray of Permatex copper sealer. No problems (yet!). Of course, the head and block flatness have been checked.

 

[charleyf]

Also be aware that the gasket fits two ways. If you are using the gasket that is sandwiched. Be sure to place the gasket so that the seams are facing the head not the block. Having those seams facing down exposes the seams to possible corrosion from water. Especially at the rear of the block behind cylinder #4.
Charley

 

[TFB]

Thanks for all the comments.I will now have to check the old gasket but I think the seems were up.
Tom

 

[CJD]

I got a tube of wellseal from TRF...a tube lasts a decade. Paint is (still) the recommended sealant for steel shim type gaskets...another throw back to the iron engine days. SInce most engines are alloy now days, composite is now the most common.

 

[sp53]

We have been out of the states for a while in Hungry (interesting place). And I have not followed the threads very good. Anyways did you check the amount of protrusion of the lines above the block? It is just a fuzz that you need; I think .006 or something, but VERY important. I remember Randall having trouble with many head gaskets that actually took him time to figure out. He later found his protrusion was not enough on number 3, so he welded a ring of copper wire around the gasket on number 3 to build the gasket up so the protrusion was high enough to seal the gasket.

Steve

 

[TFB]

Thanks Steve,Im going to assemble with stock copper/compsite gasket and if that doesnt work I will get more creative.
I Think the protrusion spec is for a new liner install where the 8 gaskets have not yet been compressed,so a motor that has been assembled and now the head removed I would expect less protrusion.
Tom