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TR2/3/3A TR3 front suspension problem

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STUinAZ

Freshman Member
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Greetings, fellow forum members. The other day I was in my TR3's right front wheel well to check out why my brake lights weren't coming on, and I happened to look up at the upper control arms, and was shocked to see this! The leading inner control arm bushing was almost fully exposed, with the control arm out over the securing nut. I've never seen this happen before.
Now, I must admit that I've been putting a lot of miles on the car (AZ to WV this summer, then to VTR-Triumphest a few weeks ago) and some of them have been hard (i.e. autocross) and I don't know how long it's been like this, but now I'm kinda scared to drive it. I've heard that modern (wide and sticky) tires put additional strain on suspension components, but this is new to me. I could just put new bushings in, but I'm thinking that there must be something more... maybe oversized washers?
(I planned to include a photo, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet)
 
Sounds to me as though the bushings were "going away" anyway, and that one just happened to work it's way out where you could see it before breaking off.

I got disgusted with having to change those things so often ... even before I started experimenting with wide, sticky tires; they would only last a few years at best. Thought at the time maybe it was ozone/smog; but now I'm wondering if it's not the heat. Anyway, I switched to Nylatron perhaps 15 years ago now, and it seems to last forever. In fact, I just moved most of those bushings from the wrecked TR3A to the project TR3, as they didn't seem to be worn at all.

Poly would probably work as well, but wasn't on the market yet, then.

Several ways to post photos here; one way is to click on the button at the bottom that says "Switch to Full Reply Screen", which will add a link for "File Manager" below the input window. When you click on the "File Manager" link, it will open a pop-up window, where you can first click the 'Browse' button to select a photo file from your hard drive (which must be less than 100k bytes in size) and then the 'Add File' button to upload the selected file to the server.

Unless you're a paying member, you're only allowed one photo per post, so click on 'Done Adding Files' to return to the main window and finish your post. The attached photo will not show up until you click the 'Submit' button.

There is a better way, but it's more complicated : Create an account at Photobucket and upload your photos to their website. Then you can post as many "IMG code" links here as you want.
DSCF0031.jpg
 
Hi Stu - have you uploaded the pictures to photobucket or a similar photosharing site?

Aren't there supposed to cotter pins on the on the end of the control arms? (I haven't taken apart a 3a suppension yet).
 
Thanks for the input, Guys. First, I believe the bushings were polyurethane, and they weren't "going away" in the usual sense, as in breaking up the way the old rubber ones seem to do. It's more like the arm just pushed out with enough force to simply break away the taller "shoulder" of the bushing and just continue out over the washer and nut. That's why I thought maybe larger diameter washers (larger than the diameter of the A-arm openings) might be a good safety measure to prevent it happening again.
As to the photo upload, well, I'll try to get it figured out... I'm not that computer savvy, but we'll see!
 
Thanks for the detailed explanation of how to upload a photo, Randall. Unfortunately the photos I have are all about 645K bytes, and I don't know how to "shrink" them. By the way, what's up with the color of the car in the photo you sent... is that TR3 really metal-flake blue? Ghastly! (IMHO)
 
You can use tiny pics free and it will resize your photo as well as give you a url that can be up loaded.
 
STUinAZ said:
By the way, what's up with the color of the car in the photo you sent... is that TR3 really metal-flake blue? Ghastly! (IMHO)
Click to expand...

With the amount of help and coaching Randall shares with the forum I'm not sure I'd even notice if he sent along a picture of a car that was pink with polka dots....
 
STUinAZ said:
Unfortunately the photos I have are all about 645K bytes, and I don't know how to "shrink" them.
Click to expand...
I like to use Irfanview, which is a free (for non-commercial use) program you can download from https://www.irfanview.com/

Or, if you go the Photobucket route, it will automatically resize for you, as part of the upload process.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] By the way, what's up with the color of the car in the photo you sent... is that TR3 really metal-flake blue? Ghastly! (IMHO) [/QUOTE]It's actually quite green, and the flash I used in that photo makes the metal flake much more apparent than under natural light. Not just exactly the shade I wanted, but as close as I could come in a cheap paint. (I was told that in order to get exactly 2005 Lotus Racing Green Metallic, I would have to ship the car to Belgium :D)

Sorry you don't care for it ... guess it's a good thing it's my car! (And as I've been saying for many years, that means it should please me.)
 
STUinAZ said:
That's why I thought maybe larger diameter washers (larger than the diameter of the A-arm openings)
Click to expand...
Actually, the original washers are larger than the opening ... they should be about the same size as the shoulder of the bushing. Sounds like you have the wrong washers.
 
I'll have to recheck my suspension - but I can't see any way those bushes could work past the outer washer unless you are using much smaller washers than were originally there. I thought those washers were almost the same diameter as the control arms themselves? Is the poly bush maybe grinding away at the washer on that lead side?

Not to add more fear than needed, but I would inspect the suspension very carefully at this point - if you have that much movement on top, is there similar movement on the bottom that you aren't seeing yet? Trunnion play, or lower inner a arm mount movement? If you have a spring compressor, might be a good time to pull that spring and take a look.
 
The cotter pin only stops the nut from turning, which in turn holds the washer in place. Since he said the nut was still there, I assume the cotter pin wasn't the problem. The arm should be held in place (approximately) by the washer, even with no bushing at all.
 
Just measured the washer on my TR4 - it is 1.38" approximately, and larger than the opening in the a arm - so I think at a minimum it is time for some new washers on your setup!
 
startech47 said:
Do you have a picture posted of your car? I like the little bit of the green that I saw.
Click to expand...
Sorry, not yet. The interior is still mostly just some old parts I threw in, so I haven't taken any photos of the whole car yet (unless maybe I got caught in one of the photos at VTR/TRfest).
 
I am surprised by all the discussion I have started. Although I still haven't gotten to producing the pictures, it seems that you all have got a pretty good idea of what has happened.
First, I'd like to apologize to Randall for my comment concerning the color of the car in his photo. Regardless of whether the photo didn't portray the color accurately, I was out of place in criticizing it. Of course, you have every right to make your car look the way you like. My car has many non-standard parts and or mods, and I am not a stickler for originality. I'm sure that it's a great example of the breed!
Now, back to the problem. The washers were part of the rebuild kit acquired through Moss about 5 years ago, and I'm rather relieved to hear that Triumph had the good sense to use washers (originally) of a larger diameter than the openings in the control arm. Obviously I will be replacing all of them with larger ones, if indeed they are too small. As to why the arm "walked out" the way it did, I'm still in the dark. A couple of years before the major rebuild I did experience a scary incident while on tour. The upper ball joint lost it's securing nut and the ball joint separated from the A-arm, dropping the wheel onto it's side and splitting the brake line. Fortunately we skidded off the road into an open space, with no serious damage or loss. During the repairs we replaced the upright, but saw no need to replace any other major component. As this occurred on the same side as my current problem, perhaps I need to examine the other components a bit more closely.
Actually, this will be a stopgap measure anyway, as I have a TR6 set of front suspension components that I intend to install eventually to allow for some caster and camber adjustment. Still hoping to improve on my autocross times! Thank you all again for your input!
 
STUinAZ said:
First, I'd like to apologize to Randall for my comment concerning the color of the car in his photo. Regardless of whether the photo didn't portray the color accurately, I was out of place in criticizing it.
Click to expand...
No worries, Stu, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm sure there are lots of folks who feel the same way.

Does sound like you might have something else going on; like maybe some imbalance on that wheel, or perhaps a cracked or distorted A-arm. I've been finding that the hub/rotor assemblies are both out of balance and out of true; which may be why my left front lug nuts want to work loose.
 
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