TR2/3/3A TR3 diff color -inside

[TexasKnucklehead]

So after I wiped off the grit, I noticed that the inside of the housing is painted red. Bearing holders and all. Is that normal? It's hard to tell, but the outside may have once been red too. I have a feeling it's been gone through before and noticed the lack of a cotter pin on the pinion nut.

Everything seems tight and I found no metal -just a lot of dirt, some of it no doubt from the flooding. But my replacement pinion seal is a little different than the one I took out. The new one appears the same from the outside, but the old one also has a metal case on the inside. Pictures are of the inside/outside of both with the new one on the right. -The distortion was caused during removal so pay no attention to that. The new seal fits more snuggly on the flange and looks like it will fit into the housing. Does it look like I have the proper seal?

 

[tdskip]

Paul's been in there!

 

[TR3driver]

Seal looks fine to me. There have been several different types over the years, ISTR originals were actually leather instead of (synthetic) rubber.

Haven't seen any red paint like that, but doesn't prove anything.

 

[TR4nut]

Mine was red like that too - I noticed a little bit on the outside, but not much. Is that what they call a glyptol treatment like on the inside of an engine?

The seal I pulled didn't look like your old one. I put in the same new one you have.

You thinking of a speedisleeve? It was dead simple to add it, so I did. I have a spare one if you are in need, just let me know.

 

[PeterK]

Looks like Glyptol paint. Mine was a different shade of red though (can you believe it!?)

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

I have a spare one

Really... a spare TR part? I'm surprised. -Thanks, but the sealing surface seems fine.

(I don't know how to quote twice in the same responce.)
"originals were actually leather"
The one I took out seems to be leather. I thought it was just a lot of grunge and destroyed it taking it out. I didn't think leather would include a spring, but it does.

"a different shade of red" -rust is another shade. The color on the outside is rust, and perhaps some faded red -and some peeling black on top.

 

[MGTF1250Dave]

Aloha,

I can't comment on the interior color, but I recently replaced the seal. Mine old seal looked like the one you removed. The old leather type seals were probably made by or similar to Chicago Rawhide Seals and perhaps original. The newer modern type (your replacement) should have superior performance and a long service life. The leather seal may have worn the flange surface so the use of a speedi-sleeve is the fix for that. Also lube up the sealing edge of the new seal before installing the flange to not damage that knife edge.

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

Tex,

A couple pics of mine....

3.7 black inside

4.1 red inside

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

[TR4nut]

Pied-

Did your diffs have any paint marks on the outside cover? Mine had a light green mark, looked very close to the color they used on the oil filter canister. I had thought, or remember an old rumor, that the paint mark was tied to the gear ratio. I didn't even think to confirm the gear ratio on mine yet, I had assumed it was 3.7.

Randy

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

Sorry Randy, no paint marks on mine that I recall. I sandblasted the exterior of the 4.1 so if it was there, it is now gone for good!

Cheers,
David

 

[prb51]

It's glyptol, a form of sealant and allows for better oil flow. All of the Mercedes Benz 50's cars I've opened up had this in the blocks, rear ends, steering box's etc. pretty common practice.

 

[tdskip]

I still think Paul got to it ;-)

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

Sooo, assuming I hadn't made the leap in mind-set from 'just get er runnin again' to 'everything must be exactly as original'... I noticed the outside of the differential appears to have also been the same shade of red. But it's more difficult to tell if the axle housing halfs were originally red. They appear black now. Some POR15 was on the diff (on top of the red), but applied on top of the existing dirt and grease, so it came off much easier than in places where it was applied directly to rust. When I scrape the black of the axle housing, there is rust under it -no red. This picture was taken after cleaning with simple green and rinsing with water; that's why it looks wet.

Does anyone paint the 'pumpkin' red and axle housings black?

Randy I didn't see any green marks. I did see some faint numbers under the POR15 on one of the springs...

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

Tex,

If you look at my pics on the left hand side of the diff where I started to clean it up, you can see feathering of black and what looks to be a redish base. I thought that the red was just a red oxide primer though...

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

[TR4nut]

I saw red on the outside of the pumpkin too, but not on the axle tubes. And it seemed to have black paint on top of the red - did you see any at all?

I checked the Triumph list archives and found one reference to that smear of paint I mentioned. Seafoam green apparently was used to identify 3.7 diffs. That would make sense since mine was originally an non-OD car, but I was kind of hoping I might have a 4.1 there based on what Pied showed.

So Tex, if you decide to 'get everything exactly as original' - start hunting for seafoam green!

 

[angelfj1]

The differential cases and covers were initially supplied by two or three local foundries (near Coventry) and then eventually in house at Standard Triumph. They were sand cast. The quality was "average" and typical for that period it was common practice to "dip" these parts in GE Glyptol or equivalent. The primary reason was to help seal up any excessive porosity and to encapsulate any particles of sand left over from the foundry. If you crack open the case and don't see orange-red, it's a sure sign that the unit has been hot-tanked prior to a re-build.

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

So Tex, if you decide to 'get everything exactly as original' - start hunting for seafoam green!

First, I would need to find the original body type to match the VIN#, then the original engine and transmission, carbs, guages... the seafoam green paint would be easy in comparison...

The BHMT for the car showed to have the 4.1 diff and OD. The car didn't have an "O" on the VIN tag when I got it, nor the OD transmision, but I'll check the diff ratio just for the fun of it. I have a toyota 5-speed and HVDA to go in.

But I've never seen a car with a red diff. If only the pumpkin was red, it might have been painted black when the frame was sprayed? And perhaps, the black doesn't wear as well as the red?

I can't tell if any red was on the cover at all, ever. The inside of the cover is black and some is missing. The red on the inside of the case is like new.

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

If I can count properly, I think I have the 3.7. I kept one axle from rotating, and put a mark on the other hub and axle housing. I also put a mark on the flange and diff case. I had to rotate the flange 37 times before the axle marks lined up again (one axle had rotated 20 times).

Although that exercise sounds simple, I spun the shaft more than 37 times and had to ask the birds to be quiet so I could concentrate on what count was incrementing when. -But now I know.

 

[TR3driver]

The BHMT for the car showed to have the 4.1 diff and OD. The car didn't have an "O" on the VIN tag when I got it,

What about the commission number on the BMHIT paperwork?

 

[TR4nut]

But I've never seen a car with a red diff. If only the pumpkin was red, it might have been painted black when the frame was sprayed? And perhaps, the black doesn't wear as well as the red?

That's my guess- I think Frank has described what I was wondering about - if the pumpkin was dunked prior to adding the axle tubes, then everything was painted black after assembly. My outside case was definitely black, and not just from the grease - and when I scratched I can see some red but didn't realize the whole thing might be painted.