TR2/3/3A TR3 Body tags & Eng S/N

[GBRandy]

I have found a TR3 that might work. It is however missing both brass body tags. The one from the body assy & the factory.

Is there a place I can use the S/N to find the body tags & original color of the car? Can you by blank tags?

I am sure I can find some sources, but would welcome a recommendation form this forum instead of a blind run on Al Gores WWW.

In addition, the engine S/N is CT0576E...which seems really weird. I checked it three times. Comments?

Thanks,

 

[Geo Hahn]

If you get a heritage certifcate for the car (using the commission number) you should get both the body number and the original engine number.

Embossed (with your number) are available thru some of the usual vendors or directly from the source who is a forum member.

<span style="font-style: italic">Where to get a cert:

https://www.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/pages/exhibitions/exhibitions_heritage_certificates.html</span>

 

[Andrew Mace]

The CT engine (leading "0" is strange, but...) is TR4, of course. I don't think any build records will show both body numbers, though.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Here is an example of a replacement tag:

The top tag is original, the lower is a redo.

Having the top one painted body color and the lower in plain brass is, I believe, as original.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...I don't think any build records will show both body numbers, though.

Half there perhaps. My build record for the TR3A shows the 7-digit body number (1053677 shown above) but does not have number that Mulliners affixed (EB48439).

If I had not had the 'EB' number I would probably polled the forum and list for EB numbers for TR3s with commission number near mine to interpolate a credible number.

 

[vivdownunder]

There's usually nothing sinister about the body tags being missing, as battery acid spray rotted them away. Battery trays (which include the area where the tags mount, were often replaced less the tags, which were unavailable until recently.

The painted EB tag number (Mulliners TR body) was fairly close to the Commission number. It's been speculated that the natural brass tag was fixed during assembly, and denoted the car number produced by Standard-Triumph, regardless of what particluar model it was.

CT numbered TR4 engine blocks fit into a TR3 by swapping the front engine plate for a TR3 plate, with its narrower engine mounts.

You will find a supplier of repo TR body tags on this forum.

Regards,

Viv.

 

[6TTR3A]

Lots of lip service re: Commission numbers vs. EB numbers vs. Triumph standard numbers on our firewalls. Standard Triumph didn't seem to care about EB numbers altho there is some correlation between them & the Comm. number. In the 1960's the EB numbers ran about 1500 behind the Comm. number (My EB # is 70624, my Comm. # 72099) I talked to Bill Piggott a couple of years ago & in his opinion, the plate that Standard/Triumph affixed to the firewall was a cumulative number for ALL Triumphs being built, regardless of model. Who knows for sure???

 

[Mkutz]

The Roadster Factory recently began selling body tags. Didn't order any, just saw them listed in a recent catalog.

 

[GBRandy]

CT numbered TR4 engine blocks fit into a TR3 by swapping the front engine plate for a TR3 plate, with its narrower engine mounts.

TR4? That stinks. Why did they do that? I know nothing about the TR4 or engine. I guess that really hurts the value

Howe can I tell if the car has an OD tranny in it? Either driving it or looking at it?

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

Randy,

You should be able to tell if it has overdrive or not by looking for the switch that activates it. This is a barrel shaped looking device with a toggle switch up and down. This is mounted to the left of the steering wheel (LHD Cars). If the car was equipped from the factory, the Comm number will end with an "O". I suppose that it could be more difficult to determine if a car has overdrive fitted at a later date. There is a possibility that the switch type/location may have been changed by whoever installed it.

I supposed you could also take a quick look under the car. Overdrives are easy to spot looking at the tail end of the tranny.

Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd

 

[angelfj1]

Lots of lip service re: Commission numbers vs. EB numbers vs. Triumph standard numbers on our firewalls.
Standard Triumph didn't seem to care about EB numbers altho there is some correlation between them & the Comm. number. In the 1960's the EB numbers ran about 1500 behind the Comm. number (My EB # is 70624, my Comm. # 72099) I talked to Bill Piggott a couple of years ago & in his opinion, the plate that Standard/Triumph affixed to the firewall was a cumulative number for ALL Triumphs being built, regardless of model. Who knows for sure???

I know a little about this subject. Mulliners was commissioned to produce body shells for the sidescreen cars shortly after the introduction of the TR-2 in Canada. They also produced body shells for many other car companies and they generally used these brass tags to identify the shell. Although I have not been able to verufy this fact, I have been told that they produced the shells for early standard cars. This is probably the reason for Bill's comment. As far as the plate that Triumph added, I have never seen one on anything but a sidescreen car.

You can find more background on this in my WIKI article.

Body ID Tags

 

[Geo Hahn]

...TR4? That stinks. Why did they do that? I know nothing about the TR4 or engine. I guess that really hurts the value

Noy a big effect on value (IMO) unless it is otherwise a very original & correct example. Depending on the carbs, head and manifold it may even pass mustard as a TR3 engine to the casual observer.

Here is what you're looking for under the car to see if it has Overdrive (that big unit at the rear of the gearbox rather than a skinny tailshaft):

If you find this DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DRIVE THE CAR -- contact me and I will send the correct standard gearbox in exchange for your unwanted and likely troublesome OD box.

 

[TR3driver]

I know nothing about the TR4 or engine. I guess that really hurts the value

The TR4 engine (especially early TR4) is virtually identical to the TR3 engine. In fact, some very late TR3s were fitted with TR4 engines by the factory (except for the front plate as noted).

Assuming you keep the TR3 rocker cover, carbs & manifolds (which will all fit a TR4 engine perfectly and were used on early TR4s by the factory), the only visible difference is the engine number stamped on the side of the block. The "standard" bore for a TR4 was slightly larger (86mm vs 83), but the larger bore was available as an option for the TR3 (and the smaller bore optional for the TR4).

I suspect the majority of TR3s have already been fitted with even larger liners anyway (87mm), as they are usually cheaper

 

[GBRandy]

OK. That makes me feel better. The engine looks exactly like the TR3 engines I have seen.

If you find this DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DRIVE THE CAR -- contact me and I will send the correct standard gearbox in exchange for your unwanted and likely troublesome OD box.

The tranny has me intrigued. There is a switch on the left hand side of the dash board. It is next to the fan switch. I thought it was the wipers...but maybe not.

Why can't the car be driven with that OD installed????

Thanks.......

 

[Andrew Mace]

In fact, some very late TR3s were fitted with TR4 engines by the factory (except for the front plate as noted).

Right. Of course, the early 1991cc 3Bs had TSF commission and engine numbers, and the later 2138cc 3Bs had TCF commission and engine numbers.

I suspect the majority of TR3s have already been fitted with even larger liners anyway (87mm), as they are usually cheaper

Excellent point. Are they any more "correct" simply because you can't "see" the difference in displacement? Actually, "back in the day" there likely were more than a few sidescreen cars fitted with 85mm pistons and liners (2088cc) from a Vanguard or Ferguson tractor.

 

[TR3driver]

Why can't the car be driven with that OD installed????

{best Foghorn Leghorn voice}Thass a joke, son, a joke!

Most TRs delivered to the US did not originally have overdrive, which makes the ODs much sought after. I have literally bought entire cars just to rob the OD (back before people started figuring out how to fit Toyota 5 speeds instead).

 

[Geo Hahn]

...DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DRIVE THE CAR -- contact me and I will send the correct standard gearbox in exchange for your unwanted and likely troublesome OD box.

Thanks for clarifying the joke -- though my offer still stands.

 

[Don Elliott]

Here is a photo of the switch on my dashboard that was there when I bought my 1958 TR3A with overdrive - brand new in May, 1958. That switch activates the relay that switches on the solenoid that rotates the shaft that lifts the long tiny piston that moves the ball valve that allows the high pressure oil to engage the overdrive.

And it all happens in a millisecond - faster that you could have read this. Every time.

 

[GBRandy]

Why can't the car be driven with that OD installed????

{best Foghorn Leghorn voice}Thass a joke, son, a joke!

Most TRs delivered to the US did not originally have overdrive, which makes the ODs much sought after. I have literally bought entire cars just to rob the OD (back before people started figuring out how to fit Toyota 5 speeds instead).

Gah!!!! I thought so, but in the interest of trying not to be to presumptuous, I fell in. Thanks for the levity...made me smile.

 

[Geo Hahn]

I have often wondered... why on earth is that switch so large and so strangely shaped? Seems like an ordinary SPST toggle switch would have worked fine for a fraction of what that thing must have cost. Any reason?