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TR 3 tappets/lifters

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Hydroglen

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Hi guys need some help.
I set the valves and after some cranking I notice some of the clearences are WAY OFF as in 1/4".
Others will have varied but not as badly.
When I bought the car I found 7 new tappets in a bag not 8.
Engine will barely start but not run. Am I missing some tappets? I suppose I need to take the head off to see what is what. Manual does not cover this area...conveniently british LOL
I assume the push rods sit in the tappets in a oil bath?
The tappets presumably sit in pockets over the cam. Does the cam have to come out to get to the tappets?
Thanks,
Dorien
 
Not likely there is a missing tappet, I'm sure you would have noticed the violence if a pushrod was resting directly on the camshaft. My first thought is that you didn't get the camshaft in the right position when adjusting them the first time; but I would probably pull the pushrods out just to check that they weren't coming apart or something.

The tappets are mostly hollow and do fill with oil, so they tend to cling to the end of the pushrods. My usual technique is to lift the pushrod slightly (perhaps 1/4 to 1/2") and spin it back and forth in my fingers until the lifter drops off.

But before pulling the head, I would definitely try setting them again.
 
Thanks...One pushrod bottom is missing. That explains the gap.
What is getting strange is that the 2 pushrods will not go back in all the way. How do the tappets fit in the block?
Can they be inserted with the head off?
Dorien
 
Tappets cannot be pulled with the head on. It is unlikely (very) that the tappets are at fault. How are you selecting the crank/cam position for adjusting? The drill is, for each cylinder, watch the exhaust open and close, then watch the intake open and close. The timing mark will, at this point, be about opposite the pointer on the timing cover. Turn the engine by hand (in the proper direction of engine rotation, look at the pitch of the fan blades) until the timing mark and pointer align (this is TDC compression stroke), then set that cylinder. Do the same for each cylinder. With regard to pushrods not going back in all the way, is the rounded bulge on the bottom the same size and shape on all pushrods? All the same length? Do the subject pushrods move when you turn the engine? Did they all move before you pulled the pushrods or was it apart when you started?
Bob
 
Hydroglen said:
Thanks...One pushrod bottom is missing. That explains the gap.
Click to expand...
That says to me that it's time to look for a new set of pushrods. Plus I'd want to find that missing piece, not just wait for it to get jammed somewhere. If you feel lucky, though, at least install a magnetic drain plug to hopefully trap it and keep it from bouncing around.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]What is getting strange is that the 2 pushrods will not go back in all the way. How do the tappets fit in the block?[/QUOTE]
They just sit in their holes, resting on top of the cam lobes. Could be that those two valves are open (meaning the tappet is resting on the tip of the cam lobe), or it may be that you pulled the tappets out of their bores and now they are laying sideways.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]
Can they be inserted with the head off?[/QUOTE]
Head off, for sure. I have managed to coax them back into their holes with the head on, but it was a tricky business.

PS, this might help illustrate what is in there:
 

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Thanks guys.
Yes I use the rule of 9. From what I see and what you guys have posted there are several issues I need to deal with.
Broken pushrods / bits in the cam /tappet area, and possible tappet problem.

I will remove the rocker shaft setup and this will allow me to see all the lifters, and I will get a new set.
May take the head off and since I have new tappets, might as well use them.
There has also been a metallic clicking twice for each hand crank turn.
Maybe related? Can't find the cause so far.
Thanks for the diagrams, it helps explain the system.
Also found a link to Macy's garage. Shows an open engine block, so another view of what the insides look like.
This is a non running car that is amazingly solid but despite many new parts questionable mechanically, as I am finding out.
Great oil pressure and fuel pump pressure LOL.
Dorien
 
Dorien - Take a look at the engine rebuild (Spitfire) in the link above to see more details.

It's in the topic "Amazing Triumph video".
 
Dorien: I just spent 20 minutes replying to your query on the TRA site! :wall:

The next time you post the same question on multiple forums, please have the common courtesy of stating that much. :madder:
 
Frank,
I posted on this site and nothing happened...the post did not come up. About an hour later I posted on another site and advised the moderator that the post was not working.
Then everything came up approximately another hour later.
Rest assured I do not post to waste my time in writing or your time in answering.
Sorry for the internet,
Dorien
 
Hydroglen said:
Frank,
I posted on this site and nothing happened...the post did not come up. About an hour later I posted on another site and advised the moderator that the post was not working.
Then everything came up approximately another hour later.
Rest assured I do not post to waste my time in writing or your time in answering.
Sorry for the internet,
Dorien
Click to expand...

I often post the same query on multiple sites and always just mention the sites. It can save time and aggravation. Nevertheless, I truly hope you solve your problem. You wont find a better TR guru than Mr. R. Young!

Cheers, Frank :smile:
 
angelfj said:
Dorien: I just spent 20 minutes replying to your query on the TRA site! :wall:
Click to expand...
So next time, just copy & paste your answer :laugh:

If it makes you feel any better, I spent several minutes typing a reply to the post on this forum, that he deleted while I was typing!
 
Hydroglen said:
Broken pushrods / bits in the cam /tappet area,
Click to expand...
Just for clarity, that area is open to the crankcase (the oil from the head drains down the pushrod tubes). So if you don't find the missing bits there, they are probably down below.
 
Well well...I think I have it!
I had e-mailed the previous owner that had "futzed" with the car a little. Never had it running. He told me what he had done which I vaguely remembered.
The valve rocker shaft towers were loose when he got the car.
He had the engine out and flipped it over to check and clean the pan/oil pump.
Back in to the car.
Pushrods in...yeah we can immagine.

I set the valves and get weird results and hence my posts.
This is my first Tr so certain "weirdness" had eluded me.

Flipping the engine over some tappets fell out of place as the not all the pushrods were properly seated.
Pulling the pushrods out also lifts the tappet and then it falls out of place. .....English cuteness. LOL. Not mentioned in any manual I got with the car, including R Williams book on " How to restore a Triumph Tr 2-3"

I suppose poking a knitting needle down to hold the tappet might be a solution.
There should have been a warning cast in to the head!

So the head will have to come off for a good look see. Will give me a chance to do a valve leak test and look for missing pieces.
And the clicking sound with 4 pusHrods out has gone.

Dorien
 
Just one of those things you are expected to know, like which way to turn the wrench. Practically any OHV car engine has the lifters retained by the valve train, so they will fall out if you invert the engine without the pushrods & rockers installed. Hydraulic lifters are less likely to stick to the pushrod tips, but it can happen.
 
Sure...elementary....but I did not invert the engine and then put the valve train back in.
Head is off...took about an hour. The books talk of a week of stud soaking. Got lucky on that one!
Dorien
 
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