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Tires on wires

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Hi to all the experts here, from a new member in St. Petersburg, Florida.
I too will need tires for a 1967 TR4A with wire wheels that I just got for restoration.
I saw in Wikipedia (which at times is notoriously wrong!) and quote:
"TR4 were originally fitted with 15x4.5" disc wheels. Optional 48-lace wire wheels could be ordered...... Tyres were a problem for original owners who opted for 48-spoke wire wheels, as the correct size radial ply tyre for the factory rims was 175x15, an odd-sized tyre at the time that was only available from Michelin at considerable expense. The much more common 185x15 radials were too wide to be fitted safely. As a result, many owners had new and wider rims fitted and their wheels re-laced"
So, what gives?????????
I don't want to kill myself.
By the way I will be posting some pics of the car soon, don't expect too much since it was FREE!!!!!
 
some questioned my choice for bias ply, here's my response (let the argument begin, as I am sure there are many "experts" out there). ultimately, it's my choice.

-bias are more fun to drive. sliding, noise, and more "feel"
-bias let you know when they will eventually loose traction, whereas radials tend to surprise you and next thing you know you are facing the wrong direction
-our LBC suspensions are designed to work with bias ply tires and when I've seen ppl put radials on their TR's, the next thing they are doing is having to mod-up the suspension to accommodate for the stiffness of the radial sidewalls
-i like the "look" of bias ply. I like tall and skinny (tires), with a bulbous side profile (whoa, I am now talking about girls!).
-I want to run WIDE white walls
-I always liked Max Bacholsky's story about putting buick sedan tires on ol' yaller and using that as his secret weapon to beat rich Euro-trash racers out in Cali in the 50s
-I have an urging desire to send money to Corky Coker
-i secretly would rather have a 36 ford roadster than a tr
-and so on...

hope that sheds some light on the inquiry.

-willie
 
Your choice, of course. If you're into doing 4 wheel drifts at 30 mph then have at it!

But I disagree about "having" to upgrade the stock suspension. Instead, it's a matter of now that you've got tires that will actually hold the road, the limitations of the suspension become rather apparent.
 
Fair enough for the reasons you gave, it is, after all you car to do with what you want. However, the statement below is incorrect.


Willie_P said:
... the next thing they are doing is having to mod-up the suspension to accommodate for the stiffness of the radial sidewalls
Click to expand...

It's the other way around. Because the radial sidewalls flex more, the contact patch remains planted flat on the ground despite the attitude of the wheel...well, to a point. It's one of the reasons why radials outperform bias-ply tires.

BTW, Diamond Back Tires have radials with wide white walls if you thought they weren't available.
 
Agreed on the performance aspect of Radials v. Bias. However, the suspension has to "work" more when using Radials (at least in old cars like ours), therefore a more compliant tire actually becomes a more significant component of the suspension and as a result you do not have to do all the camber modifications that so many do here (typically as a result of needing to accommodate their use of radials).

I understand this is a touchy subject and there's scores written pros/cons for either argument.

Before I posted I went over to Rennlist and read a great article on a vintage (race prep) 911 running bias plys that beats a competitive driven street prepared Cayman on a regular basis. the main theme of the article offered tips on how to set up your bias plys for performance driving.

again, one of the main reasons I am looking for bias is the "look" and not quite as much performance. although some performance is desired.

I also autoX'd a BGT in the mid 90's that was on it's original Michelin bias plys and took a couple trophies home. I also hit a curb once in an autoX and destroyed a wire wheel and slightly bent the frame!

anywhoo...
 
Willie_P said:
Before I posted I went over to Rennlist and read a great article on a vintage (race prep) 911 running bias plys
Click to expand...

Vintage race bias-plys are a different kettle of fish. Yes, they will out perform most if not all "street" radials. But they are also quite expensive and have practically no life at all. I regularly read about having to replace them every racing season or two.

And anyone who tries to run them in a class where radials are allowed (eg apples to apples rather than oranges) is going to lose.

BTW, TR3s were offered new with a choice of radial or bias ply. Although the speedometer calibration changed to match the slightly shorter Michelin X radials, there were no other changes to the suspension.
 
I am not sure what I am getting yet..but I am looking at tire in the $200+/tire range. So, I'm hopeful they are of a high quality and offer some "engineered" performance characteristics.
 
If you have wire wheels, I'd suggest calling or asking around for a shop with experience doing wire wheels. Not all tire machines will do them, and not everyone has the right adapters to balance wire wheels. Using the wrong equipment can result in vibration or even damage to the wheel.

Normally, any tire shop should be able to handle the steel wheels. And pretty much any shop these days should be able to handle alloys (if that's what you have).
 
I have mounted & balanced my own using Harbor Freight Tools. I can see where a ham-fisted tire guy could do some damage to a wire wheel using the big equipment but with the simple levered tire changer I saw little chance I would hurt anything (including me!).

Really not much of a money-saving thing as it is a bit of grunt work but if you enjoy knowing you did it yourself then it can be satisfying.
 
Geo Hahn said:
it is a bit of grunt work but if you enjoy knowing you did it yourself then it can be satisfying.
Click to expand...

Depends on what tires you are trying to mount. I spent over 2 hours getting just one of my 205/55 tires onto an alloy wheel (that I was hoping to use on the TR3) and I was dripping with sweat by the time it finally went into place. Looked at the other one and decided I would much rather pay someone else to do it!

Then of course you have to balance them. I don't think HF has a machine that will grab wire wheels properly.
https://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/balance_wire_wheels.html
 
Maybe it shouldn't work, but I balanced the wires using the Harbor Freight bubble-boy:

Bubble Balancer

I had the splined hub installed in the wheel when I did this so I was using the inside of the that hub to center the wheel.

I do it, then remove/reinsert to get a different orientation and then confirm the balance -- anyway, so far those tires run very smooth and show no strange wear.

195/65/15s and 185/14s are the only modern tires I have mounted and those both have pretty tall sidewalls. I can see where shorter sidewalls would be more 'grunt'.

Oddly, a look at the HF site suggests they no longer sell their budget tire-changer.
 
Back in the late '60s when I used to go to Bridgehampton race circuit and walk around the pits, the Goodyear tire guys used bubble balancers. I've used them and they work very well. But, many years ago I loaned out the one I had and you know the rest of the story. Maybe I'll get another one. :smile:
 
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