TR2/3/3A This TR3A doesn't want to wake up for the season!

[jdubois]

So the starter on my TR3A has been barely hanging on the last few years, and when I went to start the car up for the first time in about three months, it just didn't want to turn over quick enough to get the car started.

No problem, I went ahead and ordered a new starter, they're cheap enough, and did a bit of "while I'm in there" stuff while the carbs were off the car. Well, I got the new starter in today, thinking finally I'll be able to get this thing on the road. It spins great! For about 5 seconds. Then stops completely and all I get from the starter button is the solenoid 'click'.

So I go about trying to figure out if it's really the starter, or if the solenoid failed, or if my battery doesn't have enough juice. Solenoid was fine, even tried a spare I've got. Battery was fully charged, even took it down and had it load tested. Fine. Hmm... so I put a meter on to test the cable from the solenoid to the starter. Not grounded. Not open. Solenoid makes the connection from battery hot to starter cable when I press the button (without battery connected)...

Ok, let me hook the battery back up and check the voltage at the starter when I hit the start button. Hmm, only 8 volts. Don't know if that's a normal drop or not, but I'm thinking I shouldn't get any drop if the starter isn't turning. Uhh, hold on... it's still 8 volts after I've let go of the button. Errr... that's smoke coming out of the solenoid. Now the battery cables are melting... Trying to get something disconnected. $%#$^! those cables are hot. This could get bad. Where's the extinguisher? Finally got the ground cable off the battery. Ok, I'm so done with this car tonight.

Now I'm gonna have to pull this stupid starter, and figure out if I had any collateral damage from the incident (other than the battery cables, obviously). But, at least I had a nice shake down drive to work in the Spit this morning!

 

[Gliderman8]

For what it's worth.....
I installed a battery cut off switch on my TR6 (inexpensive). One night I was working on my cars electrical system hooking up the cigarette lighter. When I pushed the lighter in Whamo... the whole car filled with smoke. I had visions of the whole car going up in flames. I jumped out and quickly cut the battery off with the switch.
Moral... buy a cut off switch if the battery is accessable.

 

[Got_All_4]

Did you get a rebuilt starter? Some original starters have been rebuilt too many times and the geometry is off and may cause them not to perform properly. I put in a hi toque starter and that cured my starter woos.
It was a wet winter too. Possibly some moisture got into the cylinders and caused some rust and that's putting just enough resistance on the starter that it can't achieve full RPMs. Take the plugs out and spray some thin oil or penetrating fluid into the cylinders and then turn the motor over with out the plugs in. That should loosen it.

 

[jdubois]

Moral... buy a cut off switch if the battery is accessable.

I made this same realization last night... as I was desperately trying to disconnect the battery :eeek:

Did you get a rebuilt starter?

Yeah. I think I got a dud. I don't believe the problem is that the engine got rust in the cylinders. It was in a pretty dry garage, and the cranking for 5 seconds before the new starter died was nice and strong.

 

[angelfj1]

J.
I notice from your profile that your an engineer. I guess your not the electrical variety.

Here's a suggestion. Before you write off the starter, check with the supplier and ask if these units have integral thermal overload. I'm not sure, but since these are fairly new designs (gear motors) they may have a thermal overload in the motor winding. If the motor overheats these little bi-metalic devices are designed to open circuit the motor winding to prevent burnout. When the winding cools down sufficiently, they close and the motor winding circuit is restored. Also and unfortunately, sometimes the overload never resets and the circuit remains open. In this case there's not too much that you can do but replace the entire unit.

Good luck!

 

[jdubois]

Thanks Frank. If there was some kind of overload protection going on, the circuit should have been open. But I had a pretty strong short instead, thus the stuck solenoid and melting battery cables...

Software Engineer, btw

 

[angelfj1]

Thanks Frank. If there was some kind of overload protection going on, the circuit should have been open. But I had a pretty strong short instead, thus the stuck solenoid and melting battery cables...

Software Engineer, btw

Doh! Please keep us posted.

 

[PeterK]

Since you are a software engineer, perhaps you could trying turning it off and back on. Works for Windows most time. kidding of course (not about the Windows part).

 

[jdubois]

Well, I was going to run by the local Triumph retail store and stop in at the Genius bar. But I'm afraid they're going to tell me the battery can't be replaced and I have to buy a whole new car.

 

[tdskip]

Well, I was going to run by the local Triumph retail store and stop in at the Genius bar. But I'm afraid they're going to tell me the battery can't be replaced and I have to buy a whole new car.

LOL

 

[TR3driver]

Since you are a software engineer, perhaps you could trying turning it off and back on. Works for Windows most time. kidding of course (not about the Windows part).

If my TR3 didn't work any better than Windows, I'd drive a Toyota!

(BTW, I'm also a button pusher by profession.)

 

[jdubois]

Geez, I just can't catch a break. I figured I'd ignore the TR3 for the evening, as it'll be a few days before the new starter gets here anyway, and look at the Spitfire. During the shake down run yesterday I noticed it was a bit hesitant coming off idle. Figured I'd messed up the mixture a bit when I had the carbs off this winter to paint the exhaust manifold. Well, didn't take me long to find that the front float was full of gas and so that front carb has been dumping raw fuel into the front cylinders. Great. So, now I gotta wait for a new float, and probably should change the oil in the car again, as I don't know how much gas made it past the rings. I suppose I should also order a new valve and gasket too. Probably should get a set for the rear carb as well, while I'm in there. Especially since it's got the incorrect plastic floats at the moment... Hmm, do judges ever check inside the float bowls?

So, now I've 0 for 3 toys running.

 

[jdubois]

Well Jeff Zorn over at Little British Car Co is being extremely helpful, as usual, and getting me a new starter from Moss ASAP. And I managed to hack the Spitfire back together until the new float gets here by taking the plastic one apart and re-epoxying it closed. Don't know how long it'll last, but it only needs to last a few days.

So today is a better day for me in Triumph land :cooler: