This Morning's slight rant - contractors

[JPSmit]

Well friends, it has been the year of the house at our place - curtailing car work but it needs to be done (and in some cases wants to be done)

Last fall you may recall that we had the house re-shingled (one of a very few jobs I will not do myself) - signed the contract in Sept - got the work done by the end of November (admittedly a very wet fall) - and had to wait till spring to get the eaves done - what you may remember is that the shingles got delivered to the roof of the house across the street where that homeowner refused to let them get picked up, they stayed all winter and the homeowner got them installed on her roof this spring (they don't really match BTW and were the wrong colour - so ours is different - phew)

As mentioned this spring eaves and soffits and fascia - buddy could have kept a cleaner job site but other than that a good job.

Son painted the house meticulously (inside) and other than having to feed him and him drinking my beer it is a great job!

The fun purchase was a hot tub - which is fabulous except it necessitated ripping out half the deck, wiring and building a platform in about 5 days.

At the same time, we planned to replace an old single door in the eating area with a double french door - not outside my realm of expertise but, time is an issue so called my contractor. Bought the actual dooor and had it delivered the first week of August in anticipation of the contractor's arrival - in October I finally said "don't bother." Got another contractor through a friend who essentially gave me a "go away" bid (I can handle labour being 50% of the job, in this case even 2/3 of the job but when the quote is 4 times what I paid for the door I have to wonder.) So, yesterday paid son to be my helper and do the grunt work and got the door installed in a day. Still needs to be trimmed out but looks good and works!

I get that this is a very very busy market and I get that small jobs often aren't worth it and I also get that contractors are typically really good at what they do and not necessarily so good at things like scheduling and administration, but, dang.

At any rate, all's well that ends well and the door looks great. Oh and so far, paid my son less than 1/10th of estimate - so, takeout and beer are the order of the day!

back to regularly scheduled program.

 

[SD Bugeye]

There’s just not that many people in the trades anymore
seems nobody is willing to perform work unlesss it’s on a keyboard
the last 20 years has been tuff to get good techs
when they find out they need to be able to do some manual labor or figure out an issue on there own they are
looking for a new job
trade school here is seeing it too
teacher I know said the nobody wants to be a electrician but the SCADA program is filled to over capacity

its awesome to have kids that want to help out
it’s tuff when there across the country but we seem to always be able to get one project in a year
lot of fun and great time to catch up and share what is going on in our lives you can’t do on a phone call or in most cases a text

 

[NutmegCT]

I hear you on the willing to work point. While I'm showing visitors at Sturbridge how to plow (harrow, plant, cultivate, harvest, etc.), parents often tell their children "See what that old man is doing? That's called "work".

oy

(What's the SCADA program?)

Tom M.

 

[Bayless]

It looks like most are now recognizing that young people are not interested in that kind of "work." Wife sent me an article yesterday titled "There's No Apps for Hammers" which dealt with that very thing.

 

[mikephillips]

Went through the same thing getting someone to come replace the cable on the house for the electricity when it went bad, (only lasted 50 years, who knew..). The first dozen electric shops I called either said outright they weren't interested or said perhaps they could get to it in a month or so, which I took as "go away kid, ya bother me". Finally found someone who would schedule it and they did a good job rewiring from the power connection to the breaker box, which for the price I expected good work. Most of those who are younger I know look at you as if you're mentally challenged if you suggest doing something with your hands, much less with theirs. I know they're not all that way, but too many don't seem to want to help themselves with things much less do it for others.

 

[NutmegCT]

" ... but too many don't seem to want to help themselves with things much less do it for others."

Maybe there's an app for that.

grumble grumble

 

[DrEntropy]

The household "to do" list keeps growing, seemingly exponentially. Ambition keeps waning. After constructing the laundry room a couple years ago, I somehow ran out of steam. This past weekend was a re-ignition with some small projects: repainted the front door, changed out the lockset on it and one from garage to dining area, re-caulked the toilet base. Next will likely be to carry on with the bathroom remodel. Plumbing/wiring/construction are things I grew up with, it just seems I've less gas in the tank for it all at this point!

As for the generations following, there's an apathy toward learning how to work with their hands I find distressing. My Ol' Fella attempted to raise two self-sufficient sons. For me it was both challenge and pride of accomplishment. From plumbing and wiring to auto repair and electronics, it was all there for me to absorb. Dad's peer group were physics PhD's, metallurgists, electronics engineers, all willing to share and tutor. A truly gifted childhood was mine. Now if I attempt to interest a young person in dong something for themselves, they seem more willing to "hire" me to do it than they are to dive in and learn for themselves with me as a willing guide. That usually doesn't end with their wishes being realized. May do an article for the forum about a recent deviation from that trend: A new neighbor with a great attitude and enthusiasm but his mechanical abilities are a bit lacking.

 

[Gliderman8]

I just finished (tonight) repairing a hole in our downstairs ceiling. The shower drain directly above seems to have had a slight drip... it only took 25 years for it to seep through the ceiling. I got the leak fixed last week and for the past couple of days it's been cutting drywall, spreading joint compound, LOTS of sanding and tonight painting. Small job that turned into a bigger project than I wanted.
Like you doc I do it all... my son on the other hand would pay someone to do even the simplest chore. He's not a chip off the old block.

 

[dklawson]

Let me start with an apology to any contractors reading this thread. Let me also say that two of my nephews are framing and wood working contractors so I do not make my comments lightly or without thought.

I do not like contractors. Since the first time I needed their help (30+ years ago) I was greeted with the above mentioned "go away kid you bother me" attitude. When I could get contractors to do a job I would find something telltale at the end that showed me they had cut corners. I have also seen the tremendous disparity in quotes where clearly some of them were priced to drive me away.

In my youth I started working on cars because I had no money to pay others to fix them for me. Over the years I have found that I have to do my own work in other areas if I want the job done right. Because I am burned out I am taking a year off from drywall repairs and interior painting since I don't want to hire a contractor. I don't want to be an electrician... but I am given no choice. I don't want to understand HVAC controls... why must I learn how to fix them to be satisfied with repairs?

My requests to any contractors who happen to read this thread are as follows:

• Please be on time for meeting me, delivering your quote, and work if you are given the contract.
• Make your quote reasonable with an explanation of where cost overruns may come from.
• Take a REALLY careful look at what you are quoting before you say you can do a certain task.
• Take responsibility for your work. It is what you are selling me.
• Don't take shortcuts. Don't do anything in any manner that you would not accept on your own property.

And finally...

• If you are not interested in where I need your help, tell me so during the initial phone call. Don't waste your time and mine meeting and quoting a job you have no intention of taking on.

 

[NutmegCT]

Doug - remember back in the olden days, when technology wasn't so complex we could fix most things ourselves? No OBDII connectors or Systems Monitoring in cars, no circuit boards in refrigerators, no multi-function remotes for TV's (when they only had Brightness and Contrast, Horizontal and Vertical controls)? My 1958 Rambler owner's manual had 25 pages, the workshop manual had about 150 pages. My Nissan's audio system handbook has over 100 pages just by itself.

The more complex our world becomes, the less we can handle it. Probably applies to the contractors too.

TM

 

[dklawson]

That is why I consider myself a Luddite. I have kept as many old appliances as I could to avoid the "internet of things" and excessive electronics. I can tinker with electronics but simple electrical controls and mechanical things are much easier for me to deal with.

Returning to the "I can't be bothered to work with my hands" comments made earlier, I saw that just last month. I walk at lunch and there is a dumpster on my route. I saw a guy throwing out a seemingly brand new vacuum cleaner. When I asked him about it he said the repair shop told him "the motor was shot". I took the vacuum home and within three minutes identified it was not the motor but the on/off switch that was bad. I didn't even replace the switch... I fixed it. My younger son now has a virtually brand new Hoover because a repair tech couldn't be bothered to do his job for the customer.

 

[NutmegCT]

Doug - when I look around the house, I see TV, amp, fridge, stove, microwave, sofa, cabinets, plumbing, electrical, etc. all of which I've worked on and fixed over the years. Contractors seem to be working for big companies with big contracts; local "handy man" guys do what us Mr. Fix It guys can't handle.

I hate ladders - and heights - so always hire a local handyman for painting the second floor exterior, or roof repair.

Otherwise - it's me and the hammer (or paintbrush, or screwdriver, or pipe wrench, or voltmeter ...).

Tom M.

 

[Gliderman8]

Many years ago I mentioned to my brother that I was looking for an edger. He immediately told me his neighbor bought a new one and put the "one that didn't work" out on the sidewalk waiting for trash pickup. My brother threw it in his car and dropped it off at my place. I put gas in it and gave it a couple of pulls and it started right up. When I tried to use it, it just would not edge properly. Upon inspection I found that the new blade was installed backwards... the blade was stamped with an arrow to indicate rotation but was put on wrong. I turned it around and I still use the edger!

 

[Jerry]

My daughter is remodeling her house. As they were getting the forms ready for concrete the plumber installed pipes for the new bathroom and kitchen. My daughter went out and measured and told him and the contractor that his measurements were off. Neither did anything about it and they poured the concrete. Now one wall has to move a foot , adding to the kitchen, and taking away room from the closet. Poor work quality and poor follow up.

 

[dklawson]

... Now one wall has to move a foot , adding to the kitchen, and taking away room from the closet. Poor work quality and poor follow up.

While I was an infant my parents built the house I grew up in. Mom went to the construction site every day to keep an eye on things. Early on she told the general contractor that the footings were wrong. He dismissed my mom's comments and continued working. She came back the next day with the plans and a tape measure and showed him the mistake. If you go in the crawlspace of that house you will find that under the dining room there is a wall with a crawlspace vent. Looking through that vent you won't see the outside, you'll see a second (correct) foundation wall about 5 feet away.

The electrical contractor installed a fuse box instead of the (then new on the market) breaker box. I guess they thought my parents wouldn't notice. My mom gave them ****. Since the rest of the electrical was done the contractor refused to come back. The general contractor conceded the mistake and to make it "right" had the woodwrights construct a whole bunch of built in cabinets and bookshelves downstairs.

Like I said earlier... I want contractors who will take responsibility for their work and NOT do anything they wouldn't accept or do to their own houses.

 

[DrEntropy]

Seems many times when a woman takes exception to what's being done, she's ridiculed or worse, ignored. An opposite incident happened back in the late '70's when working after-hours at the Porsche dealership, the owner of the place and a few of us deciding how to fit some wheel wells to the front of his 924 race car. Mitsy was there and as she watched each guy's suggestion get shot down, she piped up with an elegant answer. The owner was kinda dumbfounded, his remark was: "Why didn't I see that?!?" He had been Stoddard's service manager for quite a while before buying into the dealership, and no novice to fabrication. He praised and thanked her and Mits gained instant "cred" with the crew. What these guys didn't know was; Mits had spent many hours accompanying me, watching and hands-on helping us build a Formula-A car, at another garage in the area. She was an asset, not just eyewash. A "right-lober" artist with real spatial orientation and mechanical skills. "Yes we can!" :thumbsup:

 

[SD Bugeye]

the Scary part is these are the ones that we have to look to for running our country in the near future.
Now there’s a scary thought

what did you do in your garage today?

 

[JPSmit]

And may I say I know contractors who are trustworthy but, on the one hand, at least in Toronto, they are just so busy. And, we aren't talking about Millennials by any stretch of the imagination. Actually darling daughter just got a really <really> good job at IBM for when she graduates in May - with pay and pension and benefits. Mostly I think of her work ethic when she did her internship - including when asked, "Do you know how to..." Her answer was, "No but I'll find out."

I don't feel like we can entirely balme the millennials - after all, we raised them, and, they and even back to me in high school in the 70's were made clear in no uncertain terms that the trades were for those who couldn't manage a "real" education or a "real" job. Now we (Canada and the USA) are scrambling for people in the trades who, ironically are getting paid more than me out of the door (and I am the one with Dr. in front of my name )

I think the real struggle I have is the - show up on time, or call and tell me not. Give me a fair bid, clean up after yourself. Not too much to ask.

I am pretty much to the "do it all myself" phase.

When we were newly married we were so house rich and cash poor (11.6% Interest on the mortgage!) that if we didn't do it didn't happen.

Then when we had a little more money we realized that doing it ourselves meant we could afford better products and finishes.

Then when we could afford both (sort of) I realized no one would be more meticulous with the house than me - and at least they were my mistakes and,

Now, I know how to do it, well you heard the rant!

Mind you Doc, I am running out of steam these days too - so, the list keeps getting longer - and, SWMBO has too much time to think about things! :grin:

 

[DrEntropy]

Mind you Doc, I am running out of steam these days too - so, the list keeps getting longer - and, SWMBO has too much time to think about things! :grin:

:lol:

Total sympathy here, JP. I see Mitsy looking at 'stuff' around th' hovel and wondering if she's attempting to ~s l o w l y~ wear me out!

Death by a thousand cuts, and all... :smirk:

 

[PC]

...(What's the SCADA program?)...

Supervisory Control And Data Acquisition

It's a catch-all term for the wide world of software and hardware products and systems used in process control. You typically see it when there are big physical processes and plants that need to be controlled, factories, power plants, transportation systems, municipal water, waste water, etc.

Unfortunately, (and I can't tell you how many times I've pounded my head into this brick wall in my career) there's a common (and really, really stupid) notion in the world that this is all about computers and keyboards. I'll rant at some clueless clod until I'm blue in the face that it's all about the physical process, the actual real world, the thing that's being controlled and that they need to understand all that before they try to teach some idiot computer how to run it. Then they'll just stare back with empty deer-in-the-headlights blankness.