Theoretical question for the Rolls-Royce experts

[bthompson]

I'm gonna leave the details to Doc, with his years of experience, but from the few day's immersion in the RROCA docs I've enjoyed, I can throw a few uninformed and unfounded opinions around.

It looks like the Shadow had some teething troubles at the beginnning of the run. Like most RRs, they were starting out with the best they could, with constant improvement from there, but some of the tech and engineering was totally new. The engine was based on the V8 used since the Cloud II, so it was pretty well sorted out. The Shadow was the first Rolls monocoque body, their first "mass-produced" car, and by far the most complex car not just for RR but on the planet. They ironed out thousands of details for the Shadow II, so it would seem that as far as the Shadows go, <span style="font-style: italic">later </span>years would be better. Doc will I'm sure have many more details.

I know that the Pitman arm in the early cars was a little weak and prone to crack, and the later cars used a re-designed model. The power steering was recirculating-ball, and the power assist was a horizontal hydraulic ram pushing the linkage. Since the fluid wasn't filtered, the ram could slowly grind against grit that collected in the bottom. The later cars' rack-n-pinion system works better.

The early RHD cars had the 4-speed Hydramatic that's harder to get parts for. Later English cars (but all the American market ones) got the ubiquitous TH400.

As far as safety, the later cars of course have the big bumpers, AIR pumps, and such. The engines were bored out slightly to compensate...but the horsepower would be "sufficient" in either case, I'd imagine. (I can't imagine how the fuel economy could be any worse!) And since they're all classics now, the option of ripping out (sorry; extricating? Excising?) the emissions add-ons is always there.

It seems to be a not-all-that-uncommon thing to retrofit LPG systems; I've seen them on eBay and mentioned in the Aussie mag. The economy doesn't improve, but LPG is cheaper per gallon than premium gas. In Aussie dollars, they say it's a $100 savings per tankful. Don't know what it's like in the States, with the EPA and all that getting in the way. I do know that propane is a lot easier on engines than gasoline, though.

The moral is that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And as as Forrest Gump said, "That's all I know about that!"

 

[JPSmit]

I hang out at retro Rides some and this thread is just getting going - bought a cheap Roller...

1983 Silver Spirit

 

[DrEntropy]

Woof! That guy is intrepid. I've seen some rotted out Rollies but never one as bad as that.

Reading that thread kinda made me consider I've taken some of my experiences for granted... I've likely worked on and driven more of those old lumps than most folks have even seen in a lifetime. Yesterday went to a "car show", mostly Dee-troit iron from the '60's era, a couple counterfeit Cobras, some well executed rods. One import: White 1955 Bentley. `Twas a "For Hire" car, rent it to ferry your bride to and from, etc. feh. But it was all there. Straight six, SU's. No discernible cobbling. Respray was a bit sub-par, though.

The other car to catch my eye was a mid-sixties Rambler American. All original, none of the "chrome everything" over-embellishment the rest of the herd sported. Quaint, actually. :wink:

 

[JPSmit]

All original, none of the "chrome everything" over-embellishment the rest of the herd sported. Quaint, actually. :wink:

I am a very big fan of quaint - followed very closely by quirky. SWMBO judges an old car by whether or not Mickey Mouse would drive it. Don't agree with every choice but I appreciate the logic!

 

[bthompson]

Retro Rides is duly bookmarked. I'll be very interested to see if this fella can bring the beast back from brink of death -- airbag shocks or no. It looks like it's had a very, very rough life. Perhaps at the bottom of a lake...

 

[bthompson]

Okay, there's a Rolls-Royce in my future. Not my immediate future, but my wife and I are planning an "Act 2" that will largely get our finances back on track since these horrid economic times. New degrees, new skills, new jobs, that will get us debt free, and carry us into and through our old age without having to worry about the future of social security. It will take 5-10 years, but one of our symbolic goals toward the end of this Grand Plan is to buy a house with a garage, and fit it with a tidy little workshop, metal machining tools, a lift, and put a Royce into that garage to have fun with. SWMBO is on-board with this, which is a plus.

I've downloaded the complete Factory manuals for the Silver Shadow and Silver Spirit, and studied them thoroughly, until I've become very familiar with every aspect of these cars. I've mentally done everything from virtual engine teardowns, to rebuilding the seat adjuster motor gearbox, and everything in between. I've kinda fallen in love with The Royce Way of doing things, both the good and the bad.

I've narrowed down my choices to the Shadow II/T2, and the pre-1985 Spirit/Mulsanne. (I personally prefer the more sedate lines of the Bentley versions, but as long as the mechanicals are sorted upon purchase, I'd have no problem driving and maintaining a slightly scruffy example of any of them.) I'm confident that I could manage most anything the car could throw at me, short of catastrophic engine failure.

Both models have their benefits. The Shadow II/T2 is the prettier example (to my eyes) both without and within. In every other aspect, I prefer the Spirit/Mulsanne. I like the setup of the Spirit's gas springs over the Shadow's rams, and mineral oil will be preferable as the availability and quality of RR363 starts to wane. The pre-'85 Bosch K-jetronic is a reliable and simple system (for injection) with minimal computer control -- a definite factor as these cars age, as is the pre-'85 lack of the ride control system. All the differences are in the details, as the cars are largely the same mechanically. When the time comes to pull the trigger, I'll weigh the best example against the lowest price. It's hard to look a decade ahead, but if I were to buy today, I'd get all I could out of $20,000. Any less, and you start to see mechanical short-cuts; any more, and you're paying for shiny paint.

I do have a question, after having done all this work "on paper:" the SY/SZ Royces are fully two and half tons. But they have an aluminium bonnet, boot, doors, and engine, monocoque body, and subframes.

They're big cars, sure; but my Mountaineer is bigger -- but lighter. And that with a big cast-iron lump for an engine, a full perimeter frame, big wheels, and acres of glass and steel.
So...where does Rolls-Royce put all the weight?

 

[DrEntropy]

Wow, Bill! "Blast from th' Past" as it were.

Weight... They hide much of it in all those cast bits (where most others use stamped steel components). A look at the top of the front shock mounts is a good example. And layers of steel in the coachwork.

Yesterday I went to Naples (FL) for another visit to The Collier Collection. They have a good spread (in years) of Rollie and Bentley examples. I really enjoy seeing the evolution. One '30's era "blower" Bentley is especially stunning.

The place is a sensory overload. They even have TWO Bugatti 35's. The wheels were cast, and the brake drums were integral to them. Amazing stuff.