TR6 The price of a Revington TR6 body...whoa

[DNK]

If he does ,I want first ride

 

[poolboy]

Doc, it's still neither confirmed nor denied.

Intelligence and mental well being is confirmed, but that's about it for now.

...and as we all know, Paul, sometimes the craziness just overcomes the intelligence.

 

[martx-5]

Throw a new bodyshell on a RATCO frame and you no longer have an original TR6. It becomes a reproduction or "kit-car"

Pop-riveting an old commission plate on it doesn't make it authentic and probably violates US Federal Law. At what point would these cars be banished to the Reproduction section of the local British Car Shows?

Sadly, as many projects rust away this may be the direction the hobby is heading.

I hang around the vintage section of Ferrari Chat quite a bit, and as far as they're concerned, a re-body still keeps the car original. Their concern is the original chassis, so a Ratco frame wouldn't cut the mustard. However, if you have the original frame and do a massive overhaul to it, that seems to be OK. <span style="font-weight: bold">I think what any governmental agency is concerned with is that we aren't creating new old cars that never existed before.</span> In other words, if 80,000 TR3s were made, we can't make 80,001. My TR3 is a perfect example. The original body (pre-60k) was replaced with a post 60k body. I had no documentation for this body, so it got registered as my original commission number, complete with new pop-rivets. Yes, it is on the original frame, but I could have put a Ratco frame under it and New York State would have still been happy.

As far as authenticity is concerned, that's a whole different issue. Mine's not authentic. Anyone who knows TR3s will look at the commission number and know right away that it doesn't match the body. But I don't care...and neither does NYS DMV. I didn't create a <span style="font-weight: bold">new </span> car, I only changed the one I have.

 

[LBCs_since_1988]

Art, I'm not opposed to a new frame or even a new bodyshell. It's just the two together would seem a bit of a stretch. If one were to drop a V8 in it who's to say it's still a Triumph? The ratty VIN plate?

In the future, or even now, you could theoretically go to a salvage yard, pick up an old Triumph engine block, get a BMHIT certificate, go through a title company to get a new title, buy a new bodyshell, frame, etc and you'd have a Brand New Triumph!

Every TR ever built could be resurrected!! :angel:

 

[BobbyD]

Art, I'm not opposed to a new frame or even a new bodyshell. It's just the two together would seem a bit of a stretch. If one were to drop a V8 in it who's to say it's still a Triumph? The ratty VIN plate?

In the future, or even now, you could theoretically go to a salvage yard, pick up an old Triumph engine block, get a BMHIT certificate, go through a title company to get a new title, buy a new bodyshell, frame, etc and you'd have a Brand New Triumph!

Every TR ever built could be resurrected!! :angel:

This is the age old battle of "original" vs modified and where do you draw the line. By every account I'm a modified guy and admit it but I'm also betting that 99.9% of the guys who say they are original, are also modified in some way. Modern tires excluded for safety reasons, if you're running Petronix or something similar, you're modified. Electric fuel pump, you're modified. Poly bushings, modified.... and the list goes on and on. If you want the true LBC experience that so many of us "enjoyed" back in the 60's & 70's run your car exactly as it left the factory (tires excluded).....

 

[DrEntropy]

but I'm also betting that 99.9% of the guys who say they are original, are also modified in some way

Yup.

<mounting soap box>

"Restoration" vs. rebuild or reconstruction. To split that hair, a true restoration would entail Conservation of original components right down to the nuts 'n bolts. Most of us are NOT conservators. So what.

The level of acceptance toward using NOS/OEM vs.some "counterfeit" bits is a decision of practicality. Is the example in question to be put in a sealed display case in some museum or driven on public roads? It really comes down to what level the owner wants to (or can afford to) take it. With a mass-produced (anything with production numbers high enough to be homologated) car it'd be a question of whether or not the car would be "judged" and the rules agreed upon for that judgment. AFAIC, a RATCO frame under a Revington shell with a set of ident plates on it would make it a TR-6. If it passes muster thru the governing DOT, who cares if it hasn't got the "real" frame under it? They're to be driven and enjoyed. I doubt I'd ever again attempt a true Restoration. Involvement with one 300SL was enough, and THAT was over a ten year project. In the end, the belly pans were a 'compromise'; No originals left to find. Front bumper was another originality issue. To ding someone for a frame or bodyshell replacement on a TR-whatever is just silly. If the car carries a commission number (VIN or other) that makes it THAT car. The car it came from is no longer viable. If local clubs' "judges" start believing they're at Pebble Beach I'd not want to be associated with 'em.

</mounting soap box>

Make 'em safe and enjoy th' ride.

 

[DNK]

Careful Doc, that box might be slippery. :wink:

 

[Number_6]

TR2-3B prices are even higher £23,625.00 which would be $37428.
At that price I could search around and just buy a concours TR3 for that price.

The question of when do you end up with a new car instead of a restored car brings up an interesting point. The original shell and front frames on the '68 'E that I started to restore were so far gone it wasn't practicable to attempt to restore with new panels. I would have ended up virtually building an entire new shell if I went that route. So I got a new Martin Robey shell and front frames. I used to joke that the car I ended up with would have been better called a '68 Martin Robey instead of a '68 Jag because it would have more Robey parts in it than Jag.

I also joked that maybe I should just bolt all the discarded parts that I had all together to the rusted out shell when I was done. Then I could sell that off to somebody else as a 'restoration' project and keep the process going. All they would need would be a Vin plate.

 

[vagt6]

I think the central idea is to preserve the marque. Is using a new body shell "preserving the marque"?? Is installing disc brakes and electronic ignition "preserving the marque"??

Most definitely, I think so. We can't relegate all LBCs to museums: most of us restore these cars so we can DRIVE them! Making the car drivable involves restoring with safety improvements and other upgrades that make the driving experience more enjoyable. Most of us don't go too far with these mods, in general.

After 30+ years of playing with, driving and restoring these cars, I think the hobby is in a pretty good place. I think the marque is being preserved, in general. Sure, club memberships are slowly declining, but that's inevitable since it's an older group. It's not a crisis, by any means. Thousands of folks flock to the shows.

I went to the three major, regional LBC car shows in my area this year: Washington DC MG Car Club show ("Hunt Country Classic) this weekend with 300+ cars and record attendance; "Classics on the James" in Richmond with 250+ cars; and the Shenandoah Valley club show last weekend with about 150ish cars (someone correct me with these attendance figures if you have them).

The vast majority of cars exhibited in these important shows were restored with significant effort to keep the car generally original. Sure, the paint may be metallic and the interior a non-original color but the antique British cars in these important shows are, for the most part, good examples of the original build. They look a lot like the originals.

Further, the vast majority of LBCs that I encounter have owners who are want to stay at least somewhat loyal to the concept of "original". I see few, if any, LBCs anywhere that are ruined (from an originality point of view). This is a good thing from a purist's standpoint. Again, in general, I think this means that the marques are being preserved.

I don't think our hobby is veering off, down some horrid wormhole toward UN-originality. Folks aren't ruining LBCs in the restoration process.

It's all about preserving the marque, IMHO, and I think we're doing just that all across the country.

Do you guys agree? Aren't we, in general, preserving the marque?

 

[poolboy]

I guess I'll have to admit, Mark, that preserving the marque isn't really my motivation for having a TR6. While I have one I'd like to think it's in good hands, though.
I just wanted a sportscar to pick up where I left off years ago now that I have the time and a bit of money for the upkeep.

 

[BobbyD]

I guess I'll have to admit, Mark, that preserving the marque isn't really my motivation for having a TR6. While I have one I'd like to think it's in good hands, though.
I just wanted a sportscar to pick up where I left off years ago now that I have the time and a bit of money for the upkeep.

I'm with Poolboy on this and I doubt that many of us got back into LBCs with the thought or intent of "preserving the marque"......a term which conjures up visions of..... never-mind .....I bet the vast majority of us do this for the pure enjoyment having a cool little car that's fun to work on and drive.

What got me thinking about this modified vs originality issue was when I saw that Richard Good won the modified class at the 6-Pack TRials. What put Richard in modified? Was there one thing that put his car over the line? Is there even a line? Maybe it's like the military....don't ask, don't tell Or maybe it's just things you can see vs those things that you can't see. What I'd love to see....which most shows do....is to lump us all together in the popular vote and let our peers decide if we're driving a winner BUT also have a Judged modified class in Concours. The British Invasion judged concours states: "So if you have a component that is "unique" but original, then be prepared to prove it was installed by the factory or the dealer before the time of delivery" No room for Petronix in that statement.

 

[Got_All_4]

I was at the TRF party this summer and the TR6 body shell in question is still there and is still for sale. I first saw it about 8 years ago and they wanted 10k. I think I saw 12k on it in Aug. It is beautiful. If I was doing a resto and had the money it would be a no brainer. Especially if your paying someone to do the body work. You could have much more into a professional restoration and have patches and bondo in it.