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The Lost Crypt Thread

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Tinster

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Ctypt Car a no start thread-

Ok- Checked out everything, everyone recommended.
Everything seemed good to go.... but no start.

Got the battery recharged this morning .

Unpacked the VB spare fuel pump and got out the
Bentley Blue Book. But seeing I am a lazy a guy
first thing I did ....

I pulled a plug and wire and grounded it to the
engine. It sparked but seemed like a wimpy spark
to me. Also no indication the Crypt Car was even
considering firing up.

So being lazy, I installed the third coil
(in less than 40 miles driven) just to see what might
happen.

Turned the ignition key - Crypt Car instantly fired up
on first attempt. Into a decent idle, reached 180*
temperature and I drove maybe two miles thru the hood.

Back in the crypt, turned off the key but the Crypt Car
sputtered and popped to a stop. I'll see if it will start tomorrow morning.

I know a TR coil should last more than 20 miles or so
before blowing up. Any ideas why the Crypt Car is eating
coils?

I asked the MGA mechanic and he told me it is probably
the petronix ignition causing the coils to blow up. Caesar
told me to go back to points and condenser. He thinks the
TR dizzy cannot handle the Petronix.

This is the present status of the Crypt car.
(might start in the AM). OH!! a great Thanks to Paul-
pre-bent master cylinder brakes pipes sourced. Thanks Paul!

All comments on this latest Crypt Car break down episode
and diagnostic suggestions are welcome.

Dale /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
My '74 TR6 has about 600 miles on the Petronix. I don't know if it will be good for the long-hall. Also, I am not really getting the full benefit of the Petronix because I am still running the "12v start and 6v run" with the coil even though I also installed the recommended high voltage coil that should be ok at the sustained 12v. I installed the electronic system because I just believe a hotter spark will allow a wider spark plug gap and ultimately give a bit more power
 
I have been through 3 Cranes and 1 Pertronix electronic ignition. I now have standard points and condenser and use the Lucas Sport coil for a hotter spark. I use a cold plug and a slightly wider-than-stock gap. I have no problems. I prefer Champion but will use NGK in a pinch. I have Taylor 8mm wires.
 
Thanks Bill-

I'll have Caesar install the points assembly as he
recommended.

Item: I will order some Lucas Sport Coils- since I used
my last coil this morning. How many Lucas coils do you
think I should order for the Crypt Car? 4? 6? 8?

Item: What is a cold plug?

Item: What are Taylor 8mm wires?

Item: I have Champion plugs gapped to .025

thanks,

d
 
One Sport coil, use Champion N9YC (hotter plug) and standard 7mm spark plug wires. I use colder plugs because I want a plug that cools quicker, my engine is set up to run high performance. Hot or cold plugs give the the same spark intensity. Stock or emission controlled engines should run hot plugs. I use Taylor wires because the are purrty. I would open my spark plug gap a bit with the Sport coil, maybe 35.
 
Not knowing too much about how the TR6 coil is hooked up do you use or should Dale use a ballast resistor in line to reduce running voltage? Is there a ballast resistor used in a TR6? Even with a contact points setup will the new coil still overheat if current isn't reduced or will the new Lucas coil handle the voltage? Lots of questions no answers. Sorry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Didn't Jeff make up a plate with points and condenser mounted and pre set for you? That will be an easy install.

I use the Pertronix coil and ignition wired for a 74 and have no problems. BUT, I've never left my key on too long with engine running. I thought that was the only way to screw them up and that it would fry the igniter, not the coil. I could be wrong, though.
 
I've been using an MSD unit for years with the stock points and low ohm coil. The points never pit or wear out except at about 10k miles as the springs weaken. You can open the gap a great deal on the plugs and the dizzy dwell doesn't really matter. Smooths out the idle with the multiple spark and no condensor.
 
Since the new harness probably doesn't have a resistor wire (I could be wrong), and he may well be going to a Lucas Sport coil, he won't be using a ballast resistor. However, you are correct in saying that the OE coil did use a ballast resistor, usually or often an external one. Hmmmm, could be his problem.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was the only way to screw them up and that it would fry the igniter, not the coil.

[/ QUOTE ]

A coil designed for use With a resistor will most likely be burned out if left on w/o a resistor and with the engine off but the ignition on. Even a coil which doesn't need a balast resistor is likely to burn up if the switch is left on with the engine off.

Why: A coil left on has a constant magnetic field, which will not generate any resistance. When the engine is running, the coils is swiched on/off at least 2700 times per minute, As the power goes on, there is a changing magnetic field, which causes a high level of resistance and lower amperage to flow through the coil.

when running, the higher resistance created by the changing magnetic fields, reduces to overall current flow and subsequent heating caused by resistance. When the engine is off, there is basically a short circuit across a low resistance coil which will get very hot.

As it happens, by suddenly disconecting the coil (those points!) a very rapidly changing magnetic field causes a high voltage to appear on the secondary and our spark.

However, I thought that the pertronix was smart enough to turn the current off if the engine wasn't running.

Maybe someone whose knowlege of electrical / transformers is not clouded by dissuse could give us a better explanation.
Yisrael
 
First things first: The ignition is NEVER, EVER
left in the run position unless the Crypt Car
engine is running. I crank it and if it does not
start I take out the key. I then put the key back
in for the second attempt, etc, etc. I do not store
the key in the car. I disconnect the pos battery
cable immediately upon getting out of the car- ALWAYS.

On to the coil problem:

I am able to purchase Sorensen 24-5037 coils at Western
Auto. They are marked on the black casing,
"12V, no external resister required."

They are listed on the Western Auto parts inventory as follows:

Vehicle: 1969 TRIUMPH TR6
Engine: L6 2.5 Liter Carbureted
OE Style; Point Ignition; Lucas Equipped; Retermination of Distributor #Lead or negative terminal is required.

Crypt car started easily on second crank attempt
this morning. Put my spin thru the hood was cut
short when Crypty ordered a deluge dumped on me.
Soaked to the skin.

C
The Crypt car still rattles on, and pops when
I turn off the key. Temperature gauge reads
about 180*, timing line dead on.

The carb throats are still open since I have not yet installed the air filters and filter case.

TRBill-why only one Lucas coil to order?
I've burned up two coils in less than 40 miles.
I have about 3 miles on the third coil now.
I was thinking maybe order 6 Lucas coils....
just to be safe.

Given how unreliable the Crypt Car is, would
it make sense to install a second battery in
the trunk of the TR? The interior is totally gutted
and thus it would be easy to run the battery cables
from trunk to engine bay?

regards,

d
 
Dale,

I guess the Sorensen coil would solve the ballast resistor question but I would still like to know for sure what's causing you to burn up all the coils you had. Do you know if your wiring harness from Advanced Auto Wire came with a ballast resistor wire(It appears it's an optional item)?

In addition to the extra battery and cables you may want to consider borrowing the barometer from the boat and mounting that on the dash. Hey, at least it's warm there. If you were unfortunate enough to get rained on up here this morning you would turn into a Popsicle.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
My goof here:

[ QUOTE ]
BUT, I've never left my key on too long with engine running.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I meant to say was: BUT, I've never left my key on too long with engine NOT running.

And no, the current generation is not smart enough to do anything like you suggest. From what I understand, there is a new version II coming out (not avavilable for all cars yet) that will not allow the module to burn up if the key is left on.
 
Tinster
Other than putting in a new coil to start the car, how do you know it is not a broken wire or bad connection? Have the bad coils been tested, at least with a multimeter while banging it with a rubber hammer (to see if there is a variation with shock; woa now, don't bend the case with that hammer)?

The run on sounds like a few hot sparks of carbon or possibly some sharp edges of metal in the head that are holding heat. The plugs could be a little too hot. As kids, my crowd all ways wanted to blow it out with high RPM's under WOT. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
For what its worth... I have a first generation pertronix in my car. It's worked flawlessly for nearly 9 years now. Lucky I guess. It's paired with a Jacobs Electronics Pro Street multiple spark ignition system which uses a 70,000 volt coil.

Also, TR6's didn't get a ballasted ignition until 1973. Not sure if the new wiring harness is designed for ballasts or not though.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Rewiring the ballast out is a simple wire switch at the fuse panel if one cares to do it. I installed my coil before I found out how easy it was to do the switch, so mine is wired to factory specs. I expect to get many happy miles out of my Pertronix, so long as I never leave the key in the full on position for too long, with the engine off.

Credit for this goes to Dan Masters and VTR for publishing the data: https://www.vtr.org/maintain/ballast.shtml
 
[ QUOTE ]
I disconnect the pos battery
cable immediately upon getting out of the car- ALWAYS.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just a point of safety to add. Standard practice is to disconnect the negative battery cable on a negative ground vehicle - that way you are only working on the ground side with no chance of shorting the battery with the tool you are using on the terminals.
 
electricity boggles my brain !!

Since we are discussing the Crypt Car,
maybe it will be safer to just remove the
entire battery out of the car each time I
use it?
 
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