tony barnhill said:
Hap, several of the people you listed above get their parts directly from Moss or use the same supplier as Moss...& Moss does offer options for those who are trying to save a buck and those who want a different product...yes, they may offer a top line product also but lots of what you get from them is the same thing you'd get from Moss.
I also go to David Anton at APT when I want a cam ground or other specialty items for one of my 'keepers'.
Tony, it is true that some of the listed suppliers do get their "normal" or "cheaper" engine parts offerings from Moss, but 100% Moss vendors, not hardly. For exmple, our engine came with Vandervell VP tri metal bearings from the factory, when did it become acceptable to use a lesser quality in our rebuilds, never in my opinion, and while all of these vendors do infact offer the lesser quality products, because the market demands it for the less informed, they also offer a product equal or beeter than what the factory offered.
Moss offers one piston for the 1275, a stock replacment, thats it. While they have started to offer some performance components the pricing is out to lunch, who in their right mind would order these items from them, you already heard me talk about the alloy valve retianers that are 200%+ above the rest of the vendors, heres some other examples of Moss offered performance items grossly overpriced.
APT lifters $149.95, Tony if you called David and paid retail you still be paying less than you woul after your vendor discount.
I gave the Moss people grief about ths one, tested standard lifter sets, they test each one to insure thier hardness level is acceptable for a whopping $191.95, Ok why would anyone do that, they be better off to pay the too high Moss price and get the APT lifters which are way superior to begin with, and now my real question, who gets the lifters that didn't pass the hardness test
Vernier timing gear sets 319.95, this is $100+ higher than you can get it elsewhere at retail pricing
$399.00 for what appears to be APT camshafts, thats $150 higher than you you can buy elsewhere at retail.
One of my engine customers that is doing a full restoration on a Bugeye and using Moss for alot of his parts, so he will easily reach the full sale discount which I believe is 17% off right now, he wanted to know what we could order for the engine from them, all I could come up with is the Payen gaskets sets and a water pump, everything else was either lower quality than I wanted to use, or grossly over priced, here's a good example, he wanted a high end LCB header, Moss wants 389.95, Winners Circle offers it everyday fo $259.00 retail, even with Moss deepest sale discount, thats like $75.00 higher
I could keep going, beleive me. The vendors I mentioned in my earlier post some are Moss vendors but they offer better examplse than Moss offers and at much better pricing if Moss does offer the same part, other vendors I mentioned, sell to Moss, some have nothing to with Moss, all of them work outside the Moss standard offerings, which are pretty lame to say the least in quality engine parts.
FWIW alot of Moss vendors are somewhat tiffed right now, as retail pricing has dropped (good for most of you all) and distribtor pricing has been rasied, this will mean tough times for smaller vendors, say less than $50K a year, alot of those folks will be looking elsewhere to survive in the business.
Moss serves a great purpose in our hobby, and I'm glad they are there, alot of their pricing is good, and alot of thier parts are quality, but if they want my engine part business, then you've got to offer better quality, and at something that reflect competitive pricing, and that ain't happen right now. So while I buy like alot of parts yearly in the industry right now, Moss get less than $1000 of that a year, because as engine builder they simply don't offer what I want, and I have expressed my concerns loud and clear to them, so if they want me, they need to get in the game, they are not even in the ballpark right now!
Tony with the upcoming changes in Moss's retail/vendor price structuring, I bet a year from now, you'll be whistling a different tune. Oh and FWIW I long ago gave up on the Long family, as did many other shops and vendors.
In closing, all this may look like I'm picking on the big two, maybe I'm am, but tell me this, if we the vendors and customers don't call these compaines' bluff to grow our hobby, who will?
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