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TR6 Switching to 5 - 30 wgt oil for a TR-6????

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Valid point, no doubt about the difference in engines, although his comments seems to be mostly generic in nature and therefore perhaps applicable to a wide range of engines.
What started this was my interest in new cars running 5W30; and certainly it's not a heat issue. So I said to myself "why did Triumph recommend 10W40 and 20W50 in the first place?" Well the reason they couldn't recommend the superiority of these new oils - or synthetic for that matter - is because they were not around yet. No doubt the engines would also be better today but the real question is would the older engines benefit from this new technology - just like many have with synthetics. No, I am not a synthetic fan.

BTW - when I lived in Southern California until '94 I swore by 20W50 for the TR. Since then it's been 10W40 here in NJ. I've drove it 11 years there, and now 12 here.
 
Oil questions are always a can of worms. you can look at any automotive forum and when "what type and weight of oil" is asked you get the same passionate debate with nobody having the exact right answer. I do feel 5wt is too thin for the Triumph motor but other than that---you got to run what you think is best. That Boss 302 article was written by a guy who was in oil research for 14years, I think for the most part he was right on, his info was based on oil itself and not a Boss 302. He has alot of knowlegeable reasons supporting his recomendation of using 10-30 synthetic.
 
I have to agree with you Allan. One question though, and this goes straight to the heart of the matter. I don't think heat is an issue with TR's (for normal running that is) and we all seem less concerned with the final number that would deal with heat. The greater concern it seems, has to do with the oil being too light for the greater tolerances found it an older engine. Fair enough. To that end, what's the difference for cold weather starting between 10W30 and 10W40?
Naturally we'd all assume 10W30 to be lighter. But is it really since both cold weather numbers are 10? If, as boss302 alleges, the final number has to do with heat, as regulated by the thermostat, cooling system, etc., and if we agree the TR's really don't run that hot by modern standards, can't we conclude the "30" in 10W30 is perfectly suitable??

Anyone?
 
Ya know, over at the Land Rover forum that I sometimes frequent, I hear the same old arguments. But, I've been running 10w30 synthetic for 50,000 miles and the leaks have never gotten worse, the internal engine is much cleaner than when I ran conventional oil, and its quieter.

I do think most of this is just habit, or fear to change or try the newer technology. I think I'll try 10w30 next oil change to see what happens.
 
By feel 10/30 is thinner than 10/40 so Im not sure if they flow the same when cold? I havent read that Boss article in a while but I remember him saying that with a greater difference between the low number and the high there will be a faster break down of the oil (or something like that). If your motor is in good shape I doubt if 10/30 is going to hurt anything and it might just help reduce the wear during cold starts.
 
I tend to agree. Mine has become a Sunday driver that needs to wait for me half the year. And I think there are A LOT of TR's out there under the same conditions. Thus, cold weather startup has to be a major concern for engine wear. 10W30 is becoming increasingly more attractive.
 
Not sure how my comments will wedge in this strip but my very-high-mileage Tahoe has been mysteriously consuming oil for over a year (we have no idea where it is going) so my friendly mechanic suggested I add some Lucas Oil treatment (looks like honey, and about the same consistancy). My oil pressure has increased noticeably, I have stopped loosing oil and I can now remove the piece of black electrical tape from my dash that was masking the check engine light because it went out. Seems Lucas makes some pretty good products. Just having the same name as ours makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.


Bill
 
Just a comment about cold start up and wear. I read sometime ago that around 80% of engine wear is due to start up. This was an artical about industrial motors. If you have a great car and a great engine why would you not have an accusump (sp?). It will provide regulated oil pressure during start up. Also, if I lived in a cold climite, I would have some contraption that would heat the coolent before I crank the car. (Here in the other LA I need to pre cool the radiator before cranking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)
 
Bunzil,
You continue to avoid the key issue of cold startup, oil pressure. Whether it's in Madagascar or Greenland all the moving parts in an engine are moving before the required oil pressure is reached.
Fess up, did you find a good deal on 10W-30 this weekend? And want to guide this thread to the conclusion that 10W-30 is perfectly acceptable. All for the sake of saving 25 cents per quart?
What are your thoughts on oil filters? Wally World brand or Wix? Plain white can or bright orange?
Brand name or no name gas?
After hearing a comment by Detective Harris about men wearing 10 year old suits Barney Miller stepped into his office, raised his eyebrows looked down at his clothes and said "A good suit should last 10 years".
 
No reason for any sarcasm (and it failed to make a point). I dont use 10-30 but it does look like it may be the way to go. Also what are some opinions on break in oil???,(another can of worms)
 
I got curious about this when I got my current TR6 a few years ago. From the reading I've done, something else to keep in mind is that modern passenger car oils in the lower weights have reduced amounts of anti-wear additives (zinc and phosphorus) to avoid catalyst poisoning (new cars have long emmissions control warranties...80K if I remember from my Jeep). I believe the SAE and ILSAC specs allow for higer Zn and Ph levels in the higher weight oils 10w-40's, 15w-50's, etc.

Modern cars are designed for the current recommended viscosities and addititive levels and tend to have lower friction valve trains (roller rockers, followers, etc.) compared to our flat tappet and pushrod cars.

Mixed fleet oils for diesel and gas engines still typically have higher additive levels and are probably a good choice..something like Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 and Shell Rotella 5w-40 or any of the 15w-40's.

Me, I decided on Mobil 1 15W-50, 5+ years and no issues, increased leaks, etc. Pumps easily at the temps I drive in and is one of the better of the widely available oils...and it is still a full "synthetic"..it not "hydro-cracked" or "hydro-processed".
 
Sorry Alan. Didn't realize I had to check my humor at the entrance.
The point still remains that critical lubrication is lacking until the pressure comes up.
I'll behave myself in suggesting additional topics for discussion;
Oil filters
Gas
RainX
Water Wetter
Platinum plugs
 
Viscosity is the measure of oil’s resistance to flow and it is this trait that helps lubricates your engine, not oil pressure in and of itself, or the slipperiness of the oil we intuitively associate with lubrication. The moving parts of the engine do not ride on a film of oil, but rather on a layer or crest caused by the oils resistance to flow and the movement of the two opposing parts attempting to move (flow) the oil between them. It is this bunching up of the oil that separates the moving surfaces. When the boundary layer is created is dependent on the clearance between the two surfaces, how fast they are moving in relation to each other, and of course the viscosity of the lubricant.

A simple example:
Oil lubricates the same way your car hydro-planes on rain drenched surface. While water is not very viscous it acts just like oil, at low speeds your tires and the cars weight can move the water out of the way. However, as speed increases, the water cannot be expelled fast enough to maintain road contact so the tire is lifted, effectively “lubricating” the tire from the road. While this phenomenon is disastrous when driving, it is exactly what you want to occur in your engine.

Given that lubrication is dependent on velocity, clearance, and viscosity, the TR engine designers needed to select an oil viscosity that would properly lubricate at idle (600rpm) as well as at normal cruise speed (3600 rpm). According to Bentley, for example, they recommended ESSO and Havoline 20w-40 for above freezing and 10w-30 below (Mobil was 10w-50 or 20w-50 depending on product and temperature). I have always used 20w-40 in my six.

So what does all this mean? If you drive race cars at high RPM and speed, you want lighter grade oil because you are driving fast and don’t need or have to worry about low speed lubrication. If you drive like the rest of us (sometimes fast but mostly in traffic) and your engine is not tired, you want the higher viscosity for protection at idle and low RPMs, then 20w-40 is fine. If your engine is old or runs a little hot, 20w-50 won’t hurt. For those of you in the freeze belt, 5w-30 is not that far off from Triumph’s recommended 10w-30, but for above freezing driving I would move to the higher weight oils.

In closing, I did read LastDeadLast’s link on oil. The article mentioned that multi-weight oil has additives which force oil to increase viscosity with temperature but over time loses their ability to do so. To insure you have the higher viscosity for low RPM protection and other reasons, follow the 3 month/3000 mile oil change recommendation for modern cars, and life will be better.

As to synthetic’s, I’ll let someone else out there use it in their car for a couple of years and let me know if it makes a difference.

Oh, and for the freeze belt guys, in 1968 I drove a TR4 through the winter with 30 wieght oil. For two weeks that winter, it dropped to 40 below. I remember that winter, not because of the cold, but because I had removed the air cleaners so I could pour gasoline in each SU to start the car. Youth.
 
No problem bobh, all sarcasm welcome here. Nah, I didn't find a good deal on 10W30 - and I'd put a $5.00 synthetic in if someone convinced me it was the way to go. Guess, my being around TR's for a long time led me to wonder if we're not missing something in new oils. I know just enough about tolerances to be dangerous, so I understand how new cars can run with 5W30. I have little doubt my TR gets the most engine wear on startup. Hence the original question. I belong to another forum of Infiniti G35 owners and those guys are a bunch of dopes by comparision - they throw money at every problem. TR guys are far more knowledgable, and fun. So I thought I'd throw this one out...also it's kinda daring. What? Change from 20W50? You MUST be kidding. By the way, what's an oil filter anyway?
 
Castrol 20W50 (is there another brand?) and Fram 3600 (because they are cheap and they work). Ya'll gave me a headache.



Bill
 
Sorry guys, my sense of humor may not come across as intended. It's funnier in person.
I can imagine the G35 forum is kind of boring. What can most owners do themselves? Wash and wax?
 
First of all, the G35 coupe 6-sp is 300hp so why anyone would want to tweak one of these things is completely beyond me. But some of the more clever guys are swapping out the exhaust, putting in different plenums, etc. Some nutcases are going the turbo/supercharger route. But most ask questions about powdercoating the alloys, changing headlights, and - get this - switching gears smoothly.

Small chuckle; so we finally treat ourselves to the G last year and I've been taking my 13 year old son to school in it. Ho-hum another Japanese car. Finally last April, he says "can we take the TR-6 to school today instead?" So we roll up to the front of school, top down, with my quad Ansa's gurgling. Well you think I'd pulled up in a Ferrari. It was actually embarassing. The kids are all over the car saying things like "do a burn-out man....what is that thing?....it's so cool....nice ride." Now, due to increased car popularity, my son no longer wants to go to school in the Infiniti.

Finally, of the two cars, the Infiniti is wickedly fast; but the TR (I've had three, this one for 23 years) is by far more fun. Cars will come and go, but I'll always own this car. Thanks, for induldging me, I thought you might like the story.

Oh, and one more thing, I've belonged to three TR clubs and attended tons of shows, so I know the kind of individual who owns a TR. For the guys on the Infiniti forum, this is their second or third car. Most of them are well under 25 years old. Point is; when I come here and seek some information about engine oil, I know I'll get some lively, educated, debate. There's obviously no comparision between the two forums when it comes to mechanical knowledge.
 
Ned, Your son will be asking for the keys to the TR before long. Maybe the two of you can resurrect a neglected TR6 for his use.
 
Actually, he and his 16 year old brother are both eying it. I told my wife I wanted to be buried in it, but with my luck she and the kids will have me stuffed in the trunk of a '72 Maverick.
 
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