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Sway Bar Locators
- Thread starter 10musketeer
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Roger
Luke Skywalker
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I agree with Jack - great thread.
Now, I'm by no means a Spridgeter, but I think I see some misunderstanding. Not that there's a heck of a lot of real understanding anyway; no less an authority than Alan Staniforth wrote that anti-roll bars were something of a black art.
The bar must be free to rotate in its bushings. I think that's what the early poster meant by slipping around, not moving laterally. And I don't think from a functional viewpoint it matters whether the locators are both on the outside or both on the inside, or even on both sides of one bush, just as long as they restrain the bar from sideways movement.
As for what they do, they modify the roll stiffness at the end they're fitted. If the chassis is reasonably stiff in torsion, this will affect the other end, and with a unibody like the Spridget that works.
They don't change total weight transfer - they can't if you think about it. Imagine 2 otherwise identical cars in a corner, at the same speed. One has very stiff springs, the other very soft. One rolls more than the other, and transfers weight to the outside wheels via the springs. The other transfers the same amount of weight but via the suspension components - wishbones or what have you. (If the suspension is a cart spring, then in one case is by vertical load, in the other by lateral load). To express it crudely, in one case there's more push down on the wheel, in the other there's more push sideways.
Now, I'm by no means a Spridgeter, but I think I see some misunderstanding. Not that there's a heck of a lot of real understanding anyway; no less an authority than Alan Staniforth wrote that anti-roll bars were something of a black art.
The bar must be free to rotate in its bushings. I think that's what the early poster meant by slipping around, not moving laterally. And I don't think from a functional viewpoint it matters whether the locators are both on the outside or both on the inside, or even on both sides of one bush, just as long as they restrain the bar from sideways movement.
As for what they do, they modify the roll stiffness at the end they're fitted. If the chassis is reasonably stiff in torsion, this will affect the other end, and with a unibody like the Spridget that works.
They don't change total weight transfer - they can't if you think about it. Imagine 2 otherwise identical cars in a corner, at the same speed. One has very stiff springs, the other very soft. One rolls more than the other, and transfers weight to the outside wheels via the springs. The other transfers the same amount of weight but via the suspension components - wishbones or what have you. (If the suspension is a cart spring, then in one case is by vertical load, in the other by lateral load). To express it crudely, in one case there's more push down on the wheel, in the other there's more push sideways.
bugimike
Yoda
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Here's a good simplification of how it works!
(For Jacks eyes only /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif ) the text reads:
"In turns,centrifugal force transfers some of the car's weight to the outside wheels. If the wheels are independently suspended, there is nothing to counter this tendency and the car leans towards the outside of the turn, making steering and handling difficult in extreme cases. To minimize this effect, the left and right hand A-arms are often linked by a stabilizer bar. Essentially a torsion bar that runs across the car, the stabilizer bar twists as the car leans, resisting the motion and keeping the car relatively level. It also restricts the independent action of the wheels somewhat. Stabilizer bars are also called: anti-sway bars, sway bars, anti-roll bars and roll bars."
"View from above (left) shows a suspension with a stabilizer bar, McPherson struts and lower A-arms. This setup may cost the manufacturer less than the more complicated double A-arm system. The stabilizer bar transfers some of the braking forces from the wheels to the frame and also resists body roll in turns."
Hope that helps Jack!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
(For Jacks eyes only /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif ) the text reads:
"In turns,centrifugal force transfers some of the car's weight to the outside wheels. If the wheels are independently suspended, there is nothing to counter this tendency and the car leans towards the outside of the turn, making steering and handling difficult in extreme cases. To minimize this effect, the left and right hand A-arms are often linked by a stabilizer bar. Essentially a torsion bar that runs across the car, the stabilizer bar twists as the car leans, resisting the motion and keeping the car relatively level. It also restricts the independent action of the wheels somewhat. Stabilizer bars are also called: anti-sway bars, sway bars, anti-roll bars and roll bars."
"View from above (left) shows a suspension with a stabilizer bar, McPherson struts and lower A-arms. This setup may cost the manufacturer less than the more complicated double A-arm system. The stabilizer bar transfers some of the braking forces from the wheels to the frame and also resists body roll in turns."
Hope that helps Jack!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
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tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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BUMPED.....
Can somebody go outside & take a photo of how the sway bar attachers to the wishbone/spring pan - there's a photo on the first page of this thread but the bracket's reflecting light so I can't see which way the bolts face.
Can somebody go outside & take a photo of how the sway bar attachers to the wishbone/spring pan - there's a photo on the first page of this thread but the bracket's reflecting light so I can't see which way the bolts face.
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Thank'e!
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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bump - 'cause I need to look at the photos as I build each side of my suspension.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
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Do early style spring pans work with later style a-arms?
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
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No, the spring pan themselves are shaped differently. I'm only asking just in case it makes a difference for Tony.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
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No.. not the springs. The spring pans (ya know... the thing bolted to the bottom of the A-arm with four bolts).
The early ones are more rectangular and I don't know if they will interfere with the reinforcement plates on the late model A-arms.
The early ones are more rectangular and I don't know if they will interfere with the reinforcement plates on the late model A-arms.
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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When PeterC redid my sway bars, he swapped them out for the later ones that take the sway bar.....GB1 said:
Looked under the tub today at the body shop & think I have the mounting points for the bushing brackets....if anybody can take a photo of theirs, I'd appreciate it.
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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Thank you - thought that was it...now I've just gotta figure out what bolt fits in those little holes!
TexasSprite
Jedi Hopeful
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GB1
Yoda
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Trevor/Tony
I am 99% sure that is not a problem. Think we did this on my brothers car. Also the the last time that I went to Apple with cores he threw away the ones that we not reinforced. I do not think that he would have done so if there was value. Or they could have just been ssss me, thus 99%.
Pat
I am 99% sure that is not a problem. Think we did this on my brothers car. Also the the last time that I went to Apple with cores he threw away the ones that we not reinforced. I do not think that he would have done so if there was value. Or they could have just been ssss me, thus 99%.
Pat