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Still Won't Crank Over

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Hello Jim,

if the starter circuit from the ignition switch is linked to the seat belts then the idea is to connect the belts together before it allows an engine start. Have you tried connecting the seat belt?

It still makes no sense to me that you say there is no white\red wire in the engine bay harness as that is the specified colour coding for the starter solenoid energising terminal?

Alec
 
I haven't got the seat belts in the car. I've ordered replacement belts and I don't think they have the connection.

I can take a picture tonight to show everyone, but there is not one white/red wire for either starter relay or starter solenoid. The white/red wire comes from the ignition switch into the black Petrox box behind the dash.

Here's the wiring diagram for my car:

https://www.spridget-tech.com/wiring_diagrams/Diagram_14.pdf

The starter relay is #174, the ignition switch is #38, and the starter solenoid is #4. You can see the white/red wire coming from the ignition switch going to a big rectangle that has a lot of wires going to it. That's the black box behind the dash.
 
So, bypass all that by connecting the white/red wire at that box to the yellow/pink. Then yellow/pink at the relay to the white/brown that leads to the solenoid.
 
If you just want to get the motor running, just forget all this wire chasing stuff and test your starter the old fashioned way. Connect a jumper cable the non-grounded battery terminal and spark it to the starter contact post. If it goes round-and-round, work your way back "uphill". At least you can get your motor running.
I started my Borgward that way for a year.

Glen Byrns
 
In his first post he said he could crank the engine by energizing the solenoid, so I guess he is wanting to be able to start it with the ignition key.
 
1974 was the first year when the gov't went absolutely nuts with safety and environment requirements on cars to protect us from ourselves, the most obtrusive being the 5 mph bumpers, air pumps and starter lockout.

My wife's '74 VW had that black box starter relay connected to the transmission, clutch, both seat belts and something related to emissions that I don't remember. It was bad when I got the car so I had to use a jumper wire under the back seat initially to get the starter to spin. I finally figured out how to wire around the relay and all worked fine. You should be able to do the same if that is the problem.
 
You know as not to add any confusion to this post but my car has the brown white thing going on as well. I have one wire that it brown white that I could not even trace to anything and it is not a power carrying wire so I just left it there. It is in the same area as the solenoid as well.
 
Well, the problem seems to be that you are not getting any power to the solonid. The wire, white/brown wire goes where, the starter switch? If so ring it out does it really make a connection ie is it a complete run from end to end.

If so ring out the switch, when you try to start it does it really have power out? I bet not.
 
Jack-White/brown only connects between the starter relay and the starter solenoid. I guess most people have the white/red going non-stop between switch and solenoid. Not the case with my car.

White/red runs from switch to black box. Yellow/purple runs from black box to starter relay. White/brown runs just from relay to starter solenoid. That's the trigger circuit...in simple terms.

The relay has 4 wires. Brown(power)black(ground), yellow/purple,and white/brown. There are 4 metal tabs where these wires connect. I opened the relay last night to see what's inside. As the relay is energized a coil winding pulls a metallic arm down which makes contact with one of the leads. I think this lead is where white/brown connects.

So now I've three ideas floating around in my head. The first is to keep those contacts in the relay closed and see if the starter switch works the solenoid. Second idea is to take the white/brown wire out of the loop and connect the yellow/purple wire directly to the starter solenoid.

The third idea would be extend the white/red to the starter solenoid bypassing the black box. I don't like that idea because it means hacking into my wiring harness.
 
So... my colors were wrong but, connect the white/red to the Yellow/purple at the black box. Then connect the yellow/purple to the white/brown at the relay. Then you have a direct path to the solenoid.
 
But your last idea (red/white directly to the solenoid) sounds like the best idea. Of course it should also be very easy and possible to disconnect both the red/white and the brown/white from the relay and just hook those two together. This would still look factory but also should work.
Bill
 
The only thing about going straight with white/red is that I'd have to yank it out of the multiport plug without damaging the rest of the connections, or cut it off, then make splices. Certainly not the direction I want to take with a new harness. If nothing else works then I won't have a choice but to do that.
 
A tool to just slip the spade connector from the plastic plug would be a good two dollar investment, IMO.
 
The saga continues...Since the relay has a points system in it I decided to put something around the internal workings to hold those point together and see if it would crank that way. It did, but it didn't work as I expected it to. Since it has a brown wire providing power all the time the starter started turning as soon as I touched the battery cable to the battery! That's a no go!

Scrapping that idea I bridged the yellow/purple wire with the white/brown. Put the battery cable on...nothing. Turned the key in the ignition switch...nothing.

I'm going to see if the relay from a MGB will work and source one. If that doesn't work then I'm into pulling that white/red wire and going down that road.
 
Another option to this method is to dicconnect the multiport plug from the relay (for safety) and "Scotchlock" (a plastic wire connector avail at NAPA, etc) the white/red and the white/brown together. This would do extremely minimal damage to either wire but still work.
Bill
 
Are Scotchlocks going to give enough current through for a starter assembly? I know they're used for speaker wires and things like that, but wonder if they're adequate for this application.
 
Remember that the Scotchlock doesn't need to carry the starter current, just the relay "trigger" current and yes, they would be just fine for that if you get the one that is sized for the wires (14 gauge I am guessing).
Bill
 
<soap box>

I don't want to get into a whizzin' contest here, but: ScotchLoks have no place in the wiring harness of an automobile, IMO. Aluminum tabs vioding wire insulation and subject to corrosion, electrolysis AND dielectric effect is not something to introduce to an old LBC loom.

FAA disallows 'em in aircraft, boaters learn of the shortcomings with time as do auto techs... putting them in a starter circuit (even the relay trigger) is introducing more than it solves. TEST the relay, OHM the wires, FIND the failure and remedy it.

</soap box>
 
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