Still no workie....NEED HELP

[bthompson]

Better yet, get a case of Old Speckled Hen and drink while you work...getting in an "Abingdon mindset" may help channel a bit of MG engineering logic...

 

[Guest]

Ed, we don't set the clocks back till Sunday!!

Does that mean we start drinkin' at 4?

THAT........might be why you don't have fire to the plugs !!!!

If you're not lighting off all of you cylinders correctly....how do you expect your car to ?!!?!?!?!?

 

[Colin8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]That is INSANE you have to drill your own hole.[/QUOTE] Here's the Moss page for a Mallory distributor. There is no drive dog provided and you must drill to suit so it's obviously targeted at multiple applications.
https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=32485&SortOrder=1
Yes, I know the one shown has electronic triggering. I assume the dual-point version is the same.

 

[Guest]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]That is INSANE you have to drill your own hole.

Here's the Moss page for a Mallory distributor. There is no drive dog provided and you must drill to suit so it's obviously targeted at multiple applications.
https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=32485&SortOrder=1
Yes, I know the one shown has electronic triggering. I assume the dual-point version is the same.[/QUOTE]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Allow me to clarify.

I know that, I've seen the pic, and yes, the Unilite would be the same as it wouldn't make sense to drill one and not the other. And I know that it'll fit other things. Air cooled VW dizzys look EXACVTLY the same as these. I have one sitting on a table here and I constantly have to ask myself which motor it goes to and I know there is a Datsun dizzy that's drop in for the 1500. What I asked was is the 1500 and A series dizzy is the same.

Now, on the "hole" issue:

It doesn't make it any less insane. The whole idea of aftermarket parts (especially stuff like this) is DROP IN instalation. I don't doubt it comes that way. I'm just saying it's the most ignorant thing I've ever seen in over 30 years in the automotive industry in both part sales and repair as an A.S E Certified Master Tech and Parts Specialist.

Like I stated ealier, I've sold TENS OF THOUSANDS of parts over the last fifteeen years superceeded to fit several makes and models but NOTHING beat-to-fit, paint-to match like this is.


Yeah, some "modification" is almost always required with aftermarket parts, but we're talking about MACHINE WORK. You can't (shouldn't) just drill this out in the garage with a hand drill. It has to be PERFECTLY straight, in the proper location and PERFECTLY SIZED !!!

Go big and it won't keep time and will only get worse. Go in the wrong spot and you'll have to cut more material out.

Sure, you can special order "blank" units to suit your aplication, but it's not common "off the shelf" practice.....especially on something that is as simple and common as a distributor installation.

It's like selling spark plugs that you have to cut your own threads on.

What makes sense is instructing customers to tap the dog and install set screws. Not drill a hole in the shaft and hope you get it right.

Why ?!?!?!? Because they may miss, like he did !!! Now you've got at least TWO holes through the shaft, and that's only if you get it right the second time.

Makes even more sense to supply a shaft with a hole and then drill the dog to align where you need it. You have more meat there and you can alway find one used if you screw up. You can't do that with the shaft and you can't return it for a refund once you drill it.

If I have to go to all of the trouble to drill the shaft to suit my ap, why don't I just go out and get a dizzy out of one of the obvious other applications that it'll fit and drill THAT one to fit my car. It'll be alot cheaper!!! Rebuilt or used, if I screw up, it'll be easier and cheaper to get a replacement shaft.

Like I stated sevral times before. It is INSANE to supply it as such when there are clearly other routes that can be taken.

Drill the shaft; great if you have a Bridgeport in the garage. I think most LBC owners don't.

 

[Colin8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]It doesn't make it any less insane. The whole idea of aftermarket parts (especially stuff like this) is DROP IN instalation.[/QUOTE] You obviously have a lot more experience with these than I do, but this distributor does not fall into the category of a 'drop-in' replacement. It's an aftermarket performance part, many of which require special fitting and they do tell you so in their advertising.

I DO have a mill in my shop and understand that fitting the pin is critical for proper operation. I wouldn't consider it a difficult job if I was going to buy one of these. It's probably not a job for the average shade tree mechanic that's looking for a drop-in replacement.

Your suggestion of instructing customers to tap the dog and install set screws is not a bad idea as an optional method. But set screws can spin and pinning the drive dog is more reliable. I've never seen the instructions that come with these distributors, but suspect they are not very detailed.

 

[Guest]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]It doesn't make it any less insane. The whole idea of aftermarket parts (especially stuff like this) is DROP IN instalation.

You obviously have a lot more experience with these than I do, but this distributor does not fall into the category of a 'drop-in' replacement. It's an aftermarket performance part, many of which require special fitting and they do tell you so in their advertising.

I DO have a mill in my shop and understand that fitting the pin is critical for proper operation. I wouldn't consider it a difficult job if I was going to buy one of these. It's probably not a job for the average shade tree mechanic that's looking for a drop-in replacement.

Your suggestion of instructing customers to tap the dog and install set screws is not a bad idea as an optional method. But set screws can spin and pinning the drive dog is more reliable. I've never seen the instructions that come with these distributors, but suspect they are not very detailed.[/QUOTE]

Sure, with a mill is no problem and I suspect a shade tree guy will get it done. Most LBC guys aren't shade tree guys and VERY few have acess to machine shop equipment, much less one in the garage.

Why do you think he missed it in the first place?!?!?!? Suppling it this way only leads to problems and the customer is left holding the bag. That's the point.


Glad to see you have a mill and it's no problem for you. Nice to see memebers will be able to come to you for help w/ this in the future. I still have the keys to the machine shop that I did machine workj to the "new" Space Shuttle solid rocket booster prototype several years ago......that is 120 miles away round trip. I wouldn't trust it to anyone local where I live now.

I think pointed (or concave) set screws would do nicely in this case. I don't forsee a problem with them spinning, especially if done from both sides as there is virtually no load on the shaft. If it were driving the oil pump too I'd be reluctant.

I'm not going into why an LBC parts supplier should make provisions to provide it's customers with parts that will fit.....even if it doesn't come to the company that way. It's a matter of proffesionalism and unless you've worked in the industry, some might not understand.

I've already wasted too much time and effort on this and it still doesn't help his problem (which I hope has been resolved by now).

That's what we're here for anyway, right?

 

[Colin8]

Yes, I waiting to see how it goes and hope they get the problem resolved.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I'm not going into why an LBC parts supplier should make provisions to provide it's customers with parts that will fit...[/QUOTE]

I believe the reason for this is economics. The volume of parts like these they can sell is pretty low. If they made them to fit each particular car it would require a lot more specific models to deal with and more part numbers for the distributors to stock. Our cars are pretty old and I don't think they can manufacture in high enough volume to make it viable. I find it interesting to see a lot more stuff available at Moss Europe than Moss USA and think it's because there's probably a larger market over there for our LBCs.

 

[Guest]

I was thining more along the lines of Moss sending to a local machine shop after an order was placed and having the appropriate hole drilled and possibly a dog installed (at least have the hole drilled).

All they deal w/ is LBC's, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get whatever patterns are nessisary. Just a core is good enough example and an "exchange" program wouldn't be difficult either as they have that on shocks. If it can be done in your garage, it can be done in-house also. HF's mini mill is $399.

They could charge whatever extra they needed to. It's something called profesionalism. It's the way parts houses were and still should be. Moss is, after all, the LBC part authourity, right? If they don't don't say it outright, their prices do.


There is no way I would allow someone to leave my store with a half built unit, some drill bits and a "good luck".


VB is cheaper, but doesn't even have a tech dept, which is sickening. They can sell you crap, but can't tell you how it works, where it goes, what you need to install it or what it does, but they sure can take your $$$ quickly.

Maybe I'm just different. It's never happened on my watch and never will. If I didn't have it, I'd get it. If I couldn't get it, I'd find it. If I couldn't find it, I'd send you to someone who could. You would NEVER leave my store empty handed or clueless.

No computers, no internet, just a set of paper catatlogs, EXSTENSIVE knowledge of the business and a telephone.

THAT is all you needed, and THAT is how it was done !!!!

All of this technological "progress", and people can't even sell a finished distributor.

Great big company like Moss can't even sell finished parts.

One call and I'd have it done in ten minutes for $5-$10.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[lbc_newbie]

WORKIE WORKIE....IT'S FIXED!!

BillM and RickB came over and worked their magic. After correcting the Mallory distributor, Bill did a static timing set on the car. It fired up and ran, but STILL had the flat spot that started all of this. At this point, we yanked the freakin' Weber off and installed the dual HS2s. Bill worked on getting them dialed in and now the car runs fantastic. I can finally break-in the motor! I can't thank all you guys enough for all the encouragement, tech support, humor, and ideas you all provide. The weber will be on ebay today....going cheap!

Thanks Bill, Rick, and Rich for comin' over and checking my sanity.

 

[Guest]

Re: WORKIE WORKIE....IT'S FIXED!!

WOOOO HOOOO !!!!!!!

Many dancing bananas for you !!!!

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

I too had a Weber with a flat spot that couldn't be adjusted out. Booster verturi was loose giving an bad vac signal.

I had to buy a new one. Glad you got it fixed and this thread is FINALLY DEAD and I'm outta here !!!!

Buy that man some tacos !!!!!

 

[JPSmit]

Woo Hoo! Congrats!

There is no way I would allow someone to leave my store with a half built unit, some drill bits and a "good luck".


VB is cheaper, but doesn't even have a tech dept, which is sickening. They can sell you crap, but can't tell you how it works, where it goes, what you need to install it or what it does, but they sure can take your $$$ quickly.

Maybe I'm just different. It's never happened on my watch and never will. If I didn't have it, I'd get it. If I couldn't get it, I'd find it. If I couldn't find it, I'd send you to someone who could. You would NEVER leave my store empty handed or clueless.

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled program.

Before you go though - don't be shy, tell us what you really think

 

[Billm]

The strange thing that we found is that the Mallory Dual-point distributor would never have worked as it was- when the points opened to fire the rotor was mid-was between cylinder contacts which leads me to believe that the point holder plate must be the wrong one, as in for a 6 or 8 cylinder car. We just disabled the lead set of points and used the trailing set only which were positioned correctly for the cap.
BillM

 

[jvandyke]

Re: WORKIE WORKIE....IT'S FIXED!!

super, I also ditched a Weber due to a flat spot and run the SUs again.

 

[CraigZ]

Re: WORKIE WORKIE....IT'S FIXED!!

super, I also ditched a Weber due to a flat spot and run the SUs again.

Funny. That's exactly what I did...had a 32/36DGV that gave the car a flat spot at the low end as big as Pittsburgh. Even rejetted the thing and it still drove crappy...I put up with it for a few months and went back to what worked.

 

[Guest]

Re: WORKIE WORKIE....IT'S FIXED!!

:lol:

sounds like the wrong cap, did it come with the dizzy?


Given how this has gone so far, there's probably another set of instructions telling you to bring it to a machine shop and have the plate drilled for proper point/rotor/cap alignment for your application.


This distributor is, after all; designed to fit everything from an Alfa to a Zagato... with some assembly required. This is easily acomplished by anyone with a machine shop in their garage. (that comes with the Mallory "installation kit")

..... and you can't send it back because .......you drilled a hole in it....twice!!! :hammer:

see what I mean

I really want to laugh but it's not the least bit funny.

It's really, really sad.

Going through all of this to install something that hasn't been considered a performance part for 30 years...... only to have to disable it's "performanceness" to make it work properly.

There's alot to be said for Petronix.

Good eye and good work Bill!

Glad it's going again.

Someone owes you some tacos.

 

[RickB]

Re: WORKIE WORKIE....IT'S FIXED!!

It was a fun day, finally got to meet Ed and his family - great people!

Ed's Midget is a work in progress (like most of our cars).
It was very gratifying to find the car not firing at all and leave with it running strong! Bill really did his Spridget Superhero best, quickly diagnosing the distributor problem and coming up with a good solid fix. (even providing a nice set of "spare" points for the future!!)

Then when it was firing but running very badly with the Weber it didn't take much coaxing to convince Ed he might be way better off with that set of HS2's from his bench.

We got those babies bolted up right quick and it fired up with just a squirt of mechanic handyman's helper (starter fluid).

A bit of tuning and Ed was out test driving (between rain showers) :wink:

Here are a couple pics:

Bill, doing what he does...

Pretty little set of HS2's...