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Still no workie....NEED HELP

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lbc_newbie

lbc_newbie

Jedi Warrior
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I'm at the point with this car that I really need some expert help. Rich and I worked on it last night. We swapped out the distributor with a new Mallory dual point distributor and the car wouldn't even start. We confirmed TDC and the new coil is good. Getting spark all the way to the cap, but not to the cylinders. Put in the points distributor from BillM and had the same results. I'm getting pretty frustrated with this problem. It's been going on for months now. I had a lot of people give their time in putting this engine together (NODoody II) only to have it plagued by this problem. I still have not even driven it to break in the motor. I'm open to any assistance on this. I really want to get this car running. If you are in the Seattle area, please let me know if you have time to stop on by and throw in your two cents. I'm at my wit's end with it.

78 Midget 1300 (not 1500) Weber DGV 32/36

things done so far:

Confirmed fuel pressure
Installed fuel regulator (Weber carb) and dialed to 3lbs (Holley regulator, not the junk one, BillL)
Replace fuel line
New distributors New Mallory(points gapped to .015), New Lucas electronic, old MGA points distributor borrowed from BillM, new cap, rotor, wires, plugs (gapped to .029)
New fuel filter
Timing was set (but it is questionable given the suspected distributor issue)
Weber Carb rebuilt a couple of times (all jetting is per the manual)
Float level verified per the manual

Thanks guys.....Ed
 
Silly question, maybe, but always start small.

1) Is your rotor installed?

2) Is your dizz seated properly?

3) Have you confirmed that it is turning with the engine?

4) How have you confirmed that spark is getting to the cap but not to the plug wires?

5) How have you confirmed TDC?
 
Have you tried taking the plugs out, attaching their leads, and spinning the engine with the plugs lying on the head? Do all plugs spark?
This is NOT a difficult job, don't get downhearted. A solution WILL be found.
 
Roger said:
Have you tried taking the plugs out, attaching their leads, and spinning the engine with the plugs lying on the head? Do all plugs spark?
This is NOT a difficult job, don't get downhearted. A solution WILL be found.
Click to expand...

Roger, we did go through each plug wire and found no spark.
 
If you have spark at the coil and to the dist center terminal, then the problem is in the path from the center terminal of the cap through the rotor and into the cylinder terminal of the cap. Or all the plug wires are bad - not likely.

Check to make sure the distributor is properly timed to the engine: i.e. is the rotor pointing in the correct direction toward the cap terminal of the corresponding cylinder when that cyl is at TDC on the compression stroke? If it IS, then the only think left is a bad rotor or bad cap.

Has the distributor drive shaft been removed? It must be correctly timed with the camshaft. The distributor can only engage with the drive shaft one way, but if the shaft can easily be engaged with the cam incorrectly.
 
If you are not sure if you have spark just work on that and leave the fuel related things alone until the spark issue is solved. It will make life much simpler.

You say you made sure that your timing is set relative to TDC. Could be 180 degrees out, did you check to make sure it is at TDC with the valves closed? If it is 180 out you can put 100 dizzy's in and none will work.

The plugs will not spark unless they are grounded. Did you make sure they were grounded or were they just laying on something?
 
Colin8 said:
If you have spark at the coil and to the dist center terminal, then the problem is in the path from the center terminal of the cap through the rotor and into the cylinder terminal of the cap. Or all the plug wires are bad - not likely.

Check to make sure the distributor is properly timed to the engine: i.e. is the rotor pointing in the correct direction toward the cap terminal of the corresponding cylinder when that cyl is at TDC on the compression stroke? If it IS, then the only think left is a bad rotor or bad cap.

Has the distributor drive shaft been removed? It must be correctly timed with the camshaft. The distributor can only engage with the drive shaft one way, but if the shaft can easily be engaged with the cam incorrectly.
Click to expand...

Cap, rotor, wires are new.

The rotor is pointing to the correct cylinder. It was installed at TDC on the compression stroke.

The engine was idling and running prior to swapping but the persistent problem is that it would completely die at 2200RPM. The distributor drive shaft is installed correctly.
 
tomshobby said:
If you are not sure if you have spark just work on that and leave the fuel related things alone until the spark issue is solved. It will make life much simpler.

You say you made sure that your timing is set relative to TDC. Could be 180 degrees out, did you check to make sure it is at TDC with the valves closed? If it is 180 out you can put 100 dizzy's in and none will work.

The plugs will not spark unless they are grounded. Did you make sure they were grounded or were they just laying on something?
Click to expand...

I just found out that the Mallory distributor has a gap setting of .022. I did not have this info with the unit. I currently have it gapped to .015. Would this difference cause the behavior I'm seeing? I'll re-gap and try again.
 
I would expect that to only affect dwell. You should still get a discharge from the coil.

From the description that the coil fires but plugs don't, I'd immediately suspect (and swap out) the rotor first. Then the cap if "no joy". We've seen "new" parts pre-fubar'd right outta the box, y'know. :wink:

Have you got an induction timing light? That on the coil wire should light with four per revolution and (obviously) one per rev on the plugwires.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Getting spark all the way to the cap, but not to the cylinders. Put in the points distributor from BillM and had the same results.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter if the cap, rotor and wires are new or 40 years old. If you have spark to the cap then look for a broken current path from the center cap terminal through the rotor and into the cylinder terminal(s) of the cap. If the distributor is timed correctly as you've said, then you've already isolated the problem to this area. Now find out which component if failing.

It also doesn't matter if the engine ran before or anything to do with carb or fuel delivery at this point. You said you have spark to the distributor but not through to the plugs. The problem is in one of those components. After you get spark to the plugs you can worry about the other things and perhaps find out why the engine died at various RPM.
 
Plugs can go bad- Have you tried a different set? do you get spark if you remove the wire from the plug and using a suitable screwdriver stuck in the end of the wire and held near the black and crank?


m
 
Coil wire sparks?
No spark at the end of any of the plug wires?
There's only a few places it can be stopping.
The cap usually has a spring loaded contact inside the cap under where the coil wire plugs in. The spark must travel through that to the rotor, through the rotor to each of the 4 terminals inside the cap where the spark plug wires plug in.
If you can rig up a way to test whether you are getting spark to those 4 contacts that might be educational. I'm thinking a screwdriver in the hole where the plug wire plugs in and a test lead (alligator clip on a wire then something to hold the wire over near ground then crank the engine over.
Happen to have a multimeter? Something simple has to be very wrong.
 
This may seem a little simple, but have you checked the height of the cap and the rotor?
Years ago I had a rotor that was too short and no spark went through. Did I mention they were both new and OEM?

Just a thought.

Dave :savewave:
 
Geez. I guess I went too far into brevity!!! :jester:
 
Thanks for all the input guys... I think I found what might be contributing to the problem (at least with the Mallory). I got this note from a friend on the spridgets@autox.team.net. I had no information on setting up the points on the Mallory. I need to follow through on this and see if it changes the situation. I have the points gapped at .015.

"Ed,
After reading the mallory info I realize they don't actually tell you how the dual point functions or how to adjust them. I continued looking on-line and found this article.
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig200.htm
I think that will help your understanding. Most people don't have dwell meters these days so you could just put each set of points on the peak of the cam lobe and set them individually to .022" without blocking the other set. That should get you real close, and then just make sure the rotor lines up with the proper wire in the cap when you it's installed. A difference of .007" on the points means many degrees of timing difference. So first locate the primary set of points as described in the article, and then you will know that when the secondary set just breaks open is when the rotor should be lined up with the #1 wire. Assuming you have the engine set on the TDC mark to install the distributor. I think you will get it running now.
John"
 
I had a brand new rotor that would not work. I kept it around for years because it was "new", but whenever I put it in, the car wouldn't fire. It took a long time to figure out what the problem really was. Keep Norry's law in mind

Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's good.

let me know if you need a 23d dizzy. My girlfriend lives in Fife, so I get up that way quite a bit.
 
I hade a similar problem w/ the 2200 rpm symptom. Mine was bad wires and a fried coil. Finally the car dies and didn't restart.

Start at tha cap and work your way down the path.

Does the cap have the carbon button under the center electrode?

Do you have continuity b/w the top side of the center terminal to the carbon button on the bottom? ( use an ohm meter)?

Do you have continuity on the rotor where the button touches to the end of the rotor? ( I've seen new ones bad)

Do yuo have continuity from the BOTTOM of the rotor where the shaft goes in to the center where the button is? ( if you do, throw it away)

Is the rotor cracked anywhere?

Do you have continuity from the top of the cap where the wire goes in to the bottom side of the cap where the spark jumps off to?

Is the cap cracked anywhere? Manufacture defect? ( same w/ rotor)

Does the rotor match the cap in air gap to wire terminal?

Does the cap carbon button actually touch the center of the rotor?
( mentioned earlier, there should be a wear mark)

Are you plugs fouled from prior ingition falure causing a break in ground path?
( seen it before)

Is your coil producing enought spark to jump said rotor gap, or has is been damaged by bad plus wires or too much resistance elsewhere in the system cause the coil to ground in itself? ( seen that too)

Do you have 5K ohms OR LESS PER FOOT on your wires and coil lead too?
(one of mine had 60K per foot !!!) This should be before plug check but oh well.

Is your firing order right? ( won't cause this symptom, but you've just dug through an awful lot of stuff and things might have gooten swapped up......no matter how careful you were. ( been there....DONE THAT and drove me nuts !!!!)

That should be the complete list unless someone else remebers something.

Got the right wires hooked to + and - of the coil, dizzy??
 
Have you had the engine out? If so, are you sure you reconnected the grounding strap. If you did not, you would not be the first.

What's the condition of your chassis ground. May be worth checking there. A poor ground *could* cause the symptoms you have.
 
It has to be points, condenser, roter or cap or a combination of the above.

IT HAS TO BE.
 
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