Sticking with vintage VWs

[Banjo]

I love my air cooled VWs. Fun to drive, nice folks in the community....So I thought I'd get a modern one to compliment.
We wound up with an '08 Passat wagon. Lux edition with the 2.0 Turbocharged FSI engine. GARBAGE!!!
I like the car. It looks good, drives nice, and is comfortable. But it has required several thousand dollars of internal engine repair in the year we have owned it. The night we drove it home to popped the spend-money light. That wound up being that a cam follower for the high pressure fuel pump had gone bad (Known issue I now know) so it needed a new follower and camshaft. $2000 Thankfully covered by the used car dealer we got it from, Since then it has progressively gotten worse oil pressure. Had the pan checked for metal. ok. I bought an aftermarket gauge for $350. it shows marginal pressure. Come to find out there is also a known issue with the oil pump/counterbalance shaft assembly. It can get excessive clearance, and even seize up and break. A new one?... a mere $1300 for the part.
I went a round with VW customer care and got as far as I expected. I did not buy it new, or even from a VW dealer. and it is out of warranty by time. that pretty much releases them from any obligation. I understand that. I just wanted them to know how much I was disappointed in a car with that level of problems in the drivetrain and under 80k miles.... I just needed to vent.
The sad part is I have no faith in VWs product now. And I really like some of their new cars. I guess I'm doomed to the style-less peoplemovers from Toyota and Honda. Even the new Subarus are hopelessly generic anymore.

 

[aeronca65t]

I hear you!

We have a pretty new Accord. It is a soul-less creation that is devoid of any personality or interest. But it's reliable as our fridge......just as interesting too.

I love my Miata but that only works if your max passenger load is 2.

New VWs and BMWs are much more interesting than the Asian cars......but also less reliable.
It's a tough situation for people who actually like to drive but need something that won't fall apart.

 

[Gliderman8]

Your post is timely as we are looking to replace my wife's car. I have to agree that most Asian cars are indeed void of style but seem to be dependable. We looked at a Passat but this post scares me away.

 

[Guest]

Coulda told you Passats were junk. They were 15 years and for some unknown reason, never got better. At the time, Passat was just an Audi in disguise. The Jettas were a lot better. The squarer, the better with those. Shoulda kept the BMW but if it doesn't grab ya, it doesn't grab ya.

 

[Banjo]

The BMW was a bit of a money pit as well (But it had over 200K on the odo). The bigger problem with that car was it was too nice to want to drive in the winter, and it was too small for a family trickster. we were looking for stylish utility.
I think I need to find an early 2000s Subaru outback. I like those.

 

[drooartz]

I think I need to find an early 2000s Subaru outback. I like those.

Had a 2001 Outback from new, really nice car. You do have to watch out for head gasket failures on the 2.5 engine. I put 80k on mine over 4 years with no issues. First really nice car I ever owned.

 

[AngliaGT]

We looked at VW's when we were replacing the Wife's car -after all of the complaints I heard,we passed. Maybe try a Ford Fusion,or Mazda 6.Only the Mazda comesin wagon form. .... & I'd definitly avoid Audis & Volvos (newer ones). - Doug

 

[glemon]

Your post is timely as we are looking to replace my wife's car. I have to agree that most Asian cars are indeed void of style but seem to be dependable. We looked at a Passat but this post scares me away.

Although I am going back a few years, I have to take exception to the statement that Asian cars lack style and panache, I have owned several Asian cars with plenty of character, 1st generation RX-7, tons of fun and reliable, like an updated MGB with 5 speed, smoother engine, etc.; followed by: 1st generation Nissan Sentra SE-R, boring to look at, but sporting 140hp (back when cars weighed less, and contemporary econoboxes usually had 90-100hp), competent chassis for a front driver too; followed by: third generation Maxima, again not exactly exciting to look at, but smooth and serious looking sedan, with a 5 speed, once again very quick be contemporary standards, and decent, but not great handling for front wheel drive; followed by a Lexus IS300, Lexus's BMW 3 series competitor, considered to have sharper reflexes and chassis than the contemporary 3 series, and the styling is growing on me, especially the view down the hood with a center bulge for the 3 liter straight six, but I wish I would have waited for a clutch, but it is oh so great to have RWD in my daily driver again.

Of course these are all a generation or two before what you guys are talking about, but there are still fun options, Civic SI, Subaru WRX, and the new Mazda 3 come to mind, I didn't drive a Mazda 6, but a friend of mine who likes cars with character loves his Mazda 6.

I will also add that each of the cars above were very reliable, some slight repairs when they got over 100k, but many miles of care free driving before that. I had a Mazda Millenia S as well, that was a neat car, but a bit of a nightmare, although I think the previous owner(s) had beat the **** out of it and didn't maintain or fix anything. I like German cars too, had BMW 2002 (not a 2002 BMW) until recently, and I too test drove a newer VW before getting the IS300.

My brother has old British cars too, he used to buy his kids old BMWs to drive, because they were not that bad to work on he finally saw the light, and last kids cars he bought was a Corolla, save yourself and your garage time for the old LBCs.

 

[Guest]

I hear you!

We have a pretty new Accord. It is a soul-less creation that is devoid of any personality or interest.
.

Agreed, there isn't anything there. They all do what they were designed to in their respective realm and do it quite well but no real soul. My widda had an '03 Avalon that I can't stand driving or being in. It's a great car, it's just it's lack of the ability to get comfortable with it turns me off. It's just plain "stiff", it's almost like someone embalmed it.

Don't get me wrong, our Expedition isn't a dreamboat, however; it's made by folks that know what an American monstrosity is supposed to taste like. :laugh:

 

[LarryK]

Don't you think the problems could be from the PO and not the manufacturer itself. A lot of VW owners drive them like they will go forever and do not maintain the vehicle properly and as you know starts killing the car. I know you realize you bought car used, but to blame the mileage factor to repairs on VW is not right. Check with dealer where purchased and find the repair and maintenance record of car and then see that that customer neglected the check ups and maintenance needed to make it live a long life. Diesels need love too. My brother-in-law used to buy cars with 100K on them and try to drive them a year without maintenance. Now he bad mouths certain cars for dependability on that fact. I see this on a daily basis. I had a MINI brought to me (family) that finally decided to do a 75K maintenance schedule. I did brakes, tune, filters, oil etc. Checked body and suspension. Found mouse nest in air filter ( brought car down to 10mpg ) brakes to steel, etc. Gave me a $400 budget to get everything right. After 6 hrs. on-line, got everything needed. Then when done, car was sold because $400 maintenance after 8 years was too $$ and they sold car, which they had bought new. Now new owner is faced with future problems, I had a list of things needing to be done in segments over the next few months. ( no labor costs mind you ) You could have wound up with a car like this. Polished and cleaned to the nines and priced to excite.

 

[GregW]

Don't you think the problems could be from the PO and not the manufacturer itself.

Banjo did say these were known issues with the car.

 

[LarryK]

I know. But to discredit a manufacturer because of previous owner's faults and dealer is not right. Now matter what you buy used, no matter the manufacturer or even old LBCs under 100K mile cars will be a pain in the butt. These VWs are known for 200K+ in Europe, basically because the prices to purchase manipulates the population to take care of their vehicles because of the cost of fuel. Also, European inspections, like the English MOT requires you to care for the car. I just do not see fault with car, just PO lack of care. It is the American way, unfortunately, to drive and discard at someone else's expense. When I traded my F150 with 100K , was totally caught up on maintenace, except for oil change, and was only on lot for 2 days. Went to a good home.

 

[Guest]

Don't you think the problems could be from the PO and not the manufacturer itself. .

No, they were junk from brand new. It wasn't uncommon for us to have to repair Passats straight off the truck or off the dealership front line. The Jettas were fine, it was just the Passats and for some unknown reason they area still that way. From what I'm seeing, it appears that they are now built to NOT last. As much as it pains me to say this, it would appear that the cars of the very late 80's through the 90's were perhaps the most reliable vehicles ever produced. They were low maint (relatively), cheap to keep and lasted forever. It wasn't uncommon for most popular models to go 300K. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, VW, and ever Ford and Dodge (trucks) had members of this club. It could be that finally everyone else caught on to Honda and Toyota's "10 year" approach and wanted to build a reputation of solidly built cars. Whatever happened things changed after we crossed over Y2K. It would appear manufactures got wise to the fact they need to sell cars to make money and started to "build in" problems with inferior parts and designs. I think this also may be the reason 0w oils made their appearance. Yeah yeah, I know; tighter clearances but 0w/5w, really? How do you make a 300K motor not last 300k? ..you put ditch water in it...

Maybe the problem are just the results of cost cutting but either way, they don't make 'em like they used to. They now have WAY more thing to go wrong and are infinitely more complicated to fix now.

 

[LarryK]

My neighbor is a VW and Nissan Master Mechanic, about ready to retire. Talking to him about the Passat, he says unlike the Jetta, the Passat sits on the factory lot and dealer lots too long. By the time they are shipped they are getting old and when they deliver to the dealership, they sit before they are prepped for sale. The demos are prepped and driven by customers and salesmen and are winding up the better cars. Which is where the reviews come from.

 

[Guest]

My neighbor is a VW and Nissan Master Mechanic, about ready to retire. Talking to him about the Passat, he says unlike the Jetta, the Passat sits on the factory lot and dealer lots too long. By the time they are shipped they are getting old and when they deliver to the dealership, they sit before they are prepped for sale. The demos are prepped and driven by customers and salesmen and are winding up the better cars. Which is where the reviews come from.

I was a VW Master Tech too, they sit onna lot cause folks know they are junk. :wink: I was there when the B5 came out and they were coming off the truck with problems. We had several factory recalls we did before the car ever saw the front line. We prepped everything as it came in and we went over everything before it left and buyers still had problems. This was true with the demos also. If his stated cause was the case, you would think whatever issues could be addressed and it made "back" into a good car but that's not the what I've encountered. Every new or used Jetta I've ever seen was riddled with problems no matter how much time and money you threw at them. I'm a third generation VW Master Tech and I won't touch them, except for maybe an old Passat wagon to store parts in or for the barn cat to sleep the winter out. Some folks may have had better luck but I haven't ever seen it.

 

[Guest]

. These VWs are known for 200K+ in Europe,.

They also have a diesel over there that allegedly gets 70 mpg that we can't get here for "import" reasons. I have personally found a difference in quality from cars made here and over there as well. I prefer my Japanese cars made in Japan, my Amercian cars made in American and my VW's made by folks that know what Farfegnugen is supposed to taste like. I truly believe that there is high probability we may not be getting the same apples over here.

 

[LarryK]

There is a lady that lives in a nearby town that has W12? gray Passat wagon. She has owned now for near 9 yrs. She bought it 2005ish. I really liked the style and color and the W12 interested me. She said all her problems were electrical but only had a couple mechanical problems. She said it was more reliable than her Malibu. She said she had the normal wear items replaced when needed. She probably had the extended warrany. But saw it the other day and she is still driving it. Do not know the miles. I do know her Malibu only had 40K in 5 yrs.

 

[Banjo]

I will admit I have no idea of how the PO drove the car. Carfax shows it had pretty regular maintenance checkups, oil changes and the like, and did not have any major repairs done. So prior to buying it is looked to have been treated well. All the issues I've been having are very common threads on the VW forums. Go to the Vortex forum and type in "cam follower" or "oil pressure" or "counterbalance shafts" all relating to the 2.0 FSI engine. It was put in the Passats and the Golf GTIs from 04-08. Its a 200 HP turbocharged 4 cylinder. You'll get multiple hits and see trends. There may be truth to a PO not treating it right, but what I'm seeing is a manufacturer issue. not an isolated case of abuse.

 

[Guest]

Larry, sure it's not a Phaeton or she has the VR6?

 

[LarryK]

The wagen has the W12 emblem on the gate to the right and Passat on left rear of gate. The whole idea of VW owning Porsche was to improve durability and that seems to not be happening. Hate to see what they have done to Rolls, but then BMW puts them together.