-
Hi Guest!
You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
MGB Steve Prefontaine's MGB Death
- Thread starter philman
- Start date
Share this page
ecurie_ecosse
Luke Skywalker
Offline
No seat belt???
Stuart.
Stuart.
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
The 'journalist' said in his article, <span style="font-style: italic">"Don’t blame Steve for that; don’t blame anybody. Blame the road, blame the car — but don’t blame Steve."</span> That's exactly bass-akwards! Blame Steve! He killed himself!
The roll bar in his car was one of those silly 'for looks onlys' that I've always said doesn't do anything to protect the occupants of the car. Its the same as not having a roll bar (except it could possibly fold down over the driver & pin him in the car!
Not wearing seat belts could've been a good thing - without them he might possibly have at last been thrown clear & maybe survive. With them he's automatically dead in a roll-over like that!
The drunk got in his car & killed himself. He just happened to be a gifted runner. PERIOD!
Nobody likes it whenever any life is taken & their light extinguished but let's be realistic - the car did what the driver told it to do & when the driver rammed it into a wall & gravity & speed flipped it, the car, rollbar, seatbelts, whatever, couldn't do anything other than what they were designed to do.
MGB windshields fold down in that sort of accident, everybody knows that. Those fake little roll bars are 'cool looking', nothing more. Seatbelts in an open car are, at best, a 50-50 shot at protecting you in minor accidents; 100% guaranteed to lock you into the car during a rollover.
________
I was once stopped at one of those drivers license checkpoints in Kansas; '79 MGB with top down. State trooper took my license, registration, & insurance documents, looked at my license plate & came back and said to me <span style="font-style: italic">"Sir, I'm going to have to give you a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt."</span> (I don't wear seatbelts in open cars.)
<span style="font-style: italic">"Officer,"</span> I said. <span style="font-style: italic">"I'm talking to you over the top of a windshield that's gonna fold down over me in an accident, the steering wheel is inches away from my chest so its poised to pierce my lungs, there's a shift lever inches from stabbing me in the leg and a window handle ready to stab me in the side. I'm dead whether I'm wearing a seatbelt or not.!"</span>
He handed me back my documents and said, <span style="font-style: italic">" Drive safely, sir."</span> as he walked away. No ticket!
________
Pre was dead when he got in that car drunk - it just took a few miles of curvy mountain roads before it happened!
The roll bar in his car was one of those silly 'for looks onlys' that I've always said doesn't do anything to protect the occupants of the car. Its the same as not having a roll bar (except it could possibly fold down over the driver & pin him in the car!
Not wearing seat belts could've been a good thing - without them he might possibly have at last been thrown clear & maybe survive. With them he's automatically dead in a roll-over like that!
The drunk got in his car & killed himself. He just happened to be a gifted runner. PERIOD!
Nobody likes it whenever any life is taken & their light extinguished but let's be realistic - the car did what the driver told it to do & when the driver rammed it into a wall & gravity & speed flipped it, the car, rollbar, seatbelts, whatever, couldn't do anything other than what they were designed to do.
MGB windshields fold down in that sort of accident, everybody knows that. Those fake little roll bars are 'cool looking', nothing more. Seatbelts in an open car are, at best, a 50-50 shot at protecting you in minor accidents; 100% guaranteed to lock you into the car during a rollover.
________
I was once stopped at one of those drivers license checkpoints in Kansas; '79 MGB with top down. State trooper took my license, registration, & insurance documents, looked at my license plate & came back and said to me <span style="font-style: italic">"Sir, I'm going to have to give you a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt."</span> (I don't wear seatbelts in open cars.)
<span style="font-style: italic">"Officer,"</span> I said. <span style="font-style: italic">"I'm talking to you over the top of a windshield that's gonna fold down over me in an accident, the steering wheel is inches away from my chest so its poised to pierce my lungs, there's a shift lever inches from stabbing me in the leg and a window handle ready to stab me in the side. I'm dead whether I'm wearing a seatbelt or not.!"</span>
He handed me back my documents and said, <span style="font-style: italic">" Drive safely, sir."</span> as he walked away. No ticket!
________
Pre was dead when he got in that car drunk - it just took a few miles of curvy mountain roads before it happened!
mccalebr
Jedi Knight
Offline
I've been upside down in one, a Midget, rolled over after the right rear tire blew at about 50 MPH on a rain drenched highway. The car rolled down a embankment and stopped in a ditch upright. The car had no roll bar or seat belts; the year was 1968.
I've thought about it a thousand times since; there was a very good chance that I should have not survived the incident. BUT, the windscreen frame DID hold up the weight of the car. How much more weight or speed would it have taken to fold the windscreen... 10 lbs., 5 MPH??? Who can say? In MY personal experience I would have loved to have had seatbelts, and/or a roll bar...of any sort. I had presence of mind to grab under the seat and hold on as the car began to roll. The seat pulled loose from the floor pans...they, and the car, were _2_ years old. Fortunately when my head hit the ground, the convertible top providing the only protection, it was dirt and grass and not terribly hard...like pavement.
I say, when you find yourself IN that situation you are thankful for anything that helps...I'd have been happy to have been wearing a baseball cap. When you are NOT in that situation should you do your utmost to protect yourself from that possibility...yes...to an extent. Those who would say "yes, by all means" probably fool only themselves...unless they've sold their car and moved over to some SUV forum.
I usually offer only my experiences and rarely offer opinion; this post is an exception...a little of both.
Ray
I've thought about it a thousand times since; there was a very good chance that I should have not survived the incident. BUT, the windscreen frame DID hold up the weight of the car. How much more weight or speed would it have taken to fold the windscreen... 10 lbs., 5 MPH??? Who can say? In MY personal experience I would have loved to have had seatbelts, and/or a roll bar...of any sort. I had presence of mind to grab under the seat and hold on as the car began to roll. The seat pulled loose from the floor pans...they, and the car, were _2_ years old. Fortunately when my head hit the ground, the convertible top providing the only protection, it was dirt and grass and not terribly hard...like pavement.
I say, when you find yourself IN that situation you are thankful for anything that helps...I'd have been happy to have been wearing a baseball cap. When you are NOT in that situation should you do your utmost to protect yourself from that possibility...yes...to an extent. Those who would say "yes, by all means" probably fool only themselves...unless they've sold their car and moved over to some SUV forum.
I usually offer only my experiences and rarely offer opinion; this post is an exception...a little of both.
Ray
Steve_S
Yoda
Offline
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Not wearing seat belts could've been a good thing - without them he might possibly have at last been thrown clear & maybe survive. With them he's automatically dead in a roll-over like that![/QUOTE]I can't agree with that statement. Statistically speaking, being "thrown clear" of a car is far more dangerous than staying inside during an incident. You want all the mass you can get surrounding you, taking the force of the blows. Coming out of your seat invites being crushed to death, or even torn apart as the car rolls over you. From what I've seen and read, far more people have survived roll-overs than have died from them, even in convertibles.
There is however a valid argument against shoulder belts in a convertible without a roll bar. A shoulder belt may save your life, or allow you to break your neck and / or spine. But this depends greatly on the specific type of accident and how many, many factors play out. There is no right or wrong answer to the debate. I have both types in my cars, depending on the car's construction, safety features and how I drive them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]MGB windshields fold down in that sort of accident, everybody knows that.[/QUOTE]Depends on the type of roll-over, really. MGB windscreen frames are pretty stout and fairly vertical. They have more strength than one might think! Of course an impact at the right angle can fold it like tin foil, but the same can happen to the roof of an enclosed car in the right situation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Those fake little roll bars are 'cool looking', nothing more.[/QUOTE]Now that one I agree with 100%! Looks aside, they can actually be quite dangerous in the roll-over causes them to bend foward. I've never seen any real-life statistics on this though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Seatbelts in an open car are, at best, a 50-50 shot at protecting you in minor accidents; 100% guaranteed to lock you into the car during a rollover.[/QUOTE]I don't see how seat belts have any more or less chance of protecting the occupants of a convertible versus closed car in a minor or even major accident. As for locking you in, I consider that a good thing! :wink:
There is however a valid argument against shoulder belts in a convertible without a roll bar. A shoulder belt may save your life, or allow you to break your neck and / or spine. But this depends greatly on the specific type of accident and how many, many factors play out. There is no right or wrong answer to the debate. I have both types in my cars, depending on the car's construction, safety features and how I drive them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]MGB windshields fold down in that sort of accident, everybody knows that.[/QUOTE]Depends on the type of roll-over, really. MGB windscreen frames are pretty stout and fairly vertical. They have more strength than one might think! Of course an impact at the right angle can fold it like tin foil, but the same can happen to the roof of an enclosed car in the right situation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Those fake little roll bars are 'cool looking', nothing more.[/QUOTE]Now that one I agree with 100%! Looks aside, they can actually be quite dangerous in the roll-over causes them to bend foward. I've never seen any real-life statistics on this though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Seatbelts in an open car are, at best, a 50-50 shot at protecting you in minor accidents; 100% guaranteed to lock you into the car during a rollover.[/QUOTE]I don't see how seat belts have any more or less chance of protecting the occupants of a convertible versus closed car in a minor or even major accident. As for locking you in, I consider that a good thing! :wink:
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
One of the local radio stations did a weekly report as part of a year-long study of all the auto accidents in the state in which an occupant was killed. Each Monday morning they reported the number of accidents in the last week & the number of deaths & whether or not the person who died was wearing a seatbelt.
At the end of the year?
....50% of those who died were not wearing seatbelts,
....& 50% of those who died were wearing seat belts.
So, wearing seatbelts gives you a 50/50 chance of living through an accident - or dieing.
And not wearing seatbelts gives you a 50/50 chance of living through an accident - or dieing.
& these were predominently accidents involving modern cars - not our antiques!
At the end of the year?
....50% of those who died were not wearing seatbelts,
....& 50% of those who died were wearing seat belts.
So, wearing seatbelts gives you a 50/50 chance of living through an accident - or dieing.
And not wearing seatbelts gives you a 50/50 chance of living through an accident - or dieing.
& these were predominently accidents involving modern cars - not our antiques!
Steve_S
Yoda
Offline
You can't use raw numbers in that way. The only way to prove that a seat belt will only have a 50% chance of saving a life is to test them in controlled conditions, which has been done continually for the past several decades. Using plain statistics such as those from the radio station's survey don't take anything scientific or realistic into account. The 50% that died with seat belts were probably in horrific accidents where the 50% that were not wearing them could have been in much more minor ones. But you wouldn't know that, nor could you assume that any of the belt versus no belt accidents were exactly the same.
RickB
Yoda
Offline
All right.
Here's my story about my last major Roll Over accident.
Driving a Jeepster Commando towing a Volvo 122 Amazon.
"somthin bad happind back derr" and the jeep and volvo started up a going end over end still connected to each other for a while then separated.
On the news they got the bit where I said "seems like somethin' got real hot under there"...
Set the stage:
I was about 25 miles outside Anchorage headed to Eagle River on the only highway out of town.
I had about 7-10 plastic containers full of gas in the jeep and the trunk of the volvo, as I was heading out of Alaska with all my worldly possessions to move to Seattle.
As was said before - there was a catastrophic failure of some mechanical part toward the rearward of my little caravan.
The volvo & jeep literally were going end over end for a while.
Then there was a whole lot of sliding down the roadway, gasoline leaking and gushing out from everywhere and more than enough spark to set it all off.
I had asked my friend Pete (a new Spitfire owner and hopefully member here) to drive my MGC GT while I drove the other two cars.
After the jeep came to a stop Pete came speeding up in front of me and stopped, jumped out of the car and ran over. He had a look on his face like "I really don't want to look in there & see my friend all goobered up" but he did anyway. I was OK - so he started saying "You gotta get outta there" with a lot of enthusiasm - I said "why?" He said - "cause it's going to catch on Fi" Just then the spark or the flame catching up to the jeep or whatever happened and there was a big "Whoof" sound as Pete and "some other guy" (who hadn't been there a moment before) reached in & pulled the steering column up so they could pull me out. This all happened very quickly, because I distinctly heard & felt the "Woosh" of the gas catching fire as it was all taking place.
I still remember looking to my left as I held onto my fastened seat belt while the car was sliding over 250 feet of pavement. Watching that pavement go by was very scary.
As some of you might know the jeepster is a convertible.
It flipped end over end for the first 250 feet of the accident and all the while had a fibreglass Kayak tied to it's top.
When I was safely sitting up on the embankment I looked down on the inferno and saw the Kayak sitting on the road in front. One of the ties had come loose but it looked OK. I pulled out my knife and ran down to cut the other tie. The kayak had not sustained any damage at all.
The State Trooper asked me if I had been belted in, I answered truthfully that I was. He said: "good - I've never had to unbuckle a dead man".
I know, a jeepster commando isn't an MG. But I thought the story was related to the conversation and there was the MGC component in there. I also had a cat along the ride, only cat I ever liked. She beat feet as soon as the jeep came to a stop.
While my jeep was sitting there burning a hole in the pavement a bunch of the drivers who couldn't go anywhere anyway got out and found her up in the nearby woods. Good cat - she lived 20 years, I haven't had another since her. Now I have dogs.
Here's my story about my last major Roll Over accident.
Driving a Jeepster Commando towing a Volvo 122 Amazon.
"somthin bad happind back derr" and the jeep and volvo started up a going end over end still connected to each other for a while then separated.
On the news they got the bit where I said "seems like somethin' got real hot under there"...
Set the stage:
I was about 25 miles outside Anchorage headed to Eagle River on the only highway out of town.
I had about 7-10 plastic containers full of gas in the jeep and the trunk of the volvo, as I was heading out of Alaska with all my worldly possessions to move to Seattle.
As was said before - there was a catastrophic failure of some mechanical part toward the rearward of my little caravan.
The volvo & jeep literally were going end over end for a while.
Then there was a whole lot of sliding down the roadway, gasoline leaking and gushing out from everywhere and more than enough spark to set it all off.
I had asked my friend Pete (a new Spitfire owner and hopefully member here) to drive my MGC GT while I drove the other two cars.
After the jeep came to a stop Pete came speeding up in front of me and stopped, jumped out of the car and ran over. He had a look on his face like "I really don't want to look in there & see my friend all goobered up" but he did anyway. I was OK - so he started saying "You gotta get outta there" with a lot of enthusiasm - I said "why?" He said - "cause it's going to catch on Fi" Just then the spark or the flame catching up to the jeep or whatever happened and there was a big "Whoof" sound as Pete and "some other guy" (who hadn't been there a moment before) reached in & pulled the steering column up so they could pull me out. This all happened very quickly, because I distinctly heard & felt the "Woosh" of the gas catching fire as it was all taking place.
I still remember looking to my left as I held onto my fastened seat belt while the car was sliding over 250 feet of pavement. Watching that pavement go by was very scary.
As some of you might know the jeepster is a convertible.
It flipped end over end for the first 250 feet of the accident and all the while had a fibreglass Kayak tied to it's top.
When I was safely sitting up on the embankment I looked down on the inferno and saw the Kayak sitting on the road in front. One of the ties had come loose but it looked OK. I pulled out my knife and ran down to cut the other tie. The kayak had not sustained any damage at all.
The State Trooper asked me if I had been belted in, I answered truthfully that I was. He said: "good - I've never had to unbuckle a dead man".
I know, a jeepster commando isn't an MG. But I thought the story was related to the conversation and there was the MGC component in there. I also had a cat along the ride, only cat I ever liked. She beat feet as soon as the jeep came to a stop.
While my jeep was sitting there burning a hole in the pavement a bunch of the drivers who couldn't go anywhere anyway got out and found her up in the nearby woods. Good cat - she lived 20 years, I haven't had another since her. Now I have dogs.
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Rick - you're a lucky man...I've driven that highway many times....its 'lumpy' to say the least!
& call me an idiot if you want, but the old seatbelts in that MGB wouldn't have done much to help Pre in his particular accident, IMHO.
& call me an idiot if you want, but the old seatbelts in that MGB wouldn't have done much to help Pre in his particular accident, IMHO.
Gray_Cat
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Tony - I investigated a roll over accident involving a 76 Midget many years ago (insurance claims adjuster phase of my life). The driver was a 17 year old guy, and the passenger, 16 year old girl. Neither was wearing seatbelts, the guy died and the girl lived suffering a broken arm. Both were thrown out of the car and, yes, drinking was involved. I know nothing of stats, numbers etc. but this very sad memory jives up with the 50/50 chance of survival. That said, I always wore my seat belt in my Bugeye, Midget and several MGB's and will again when my current Bugeye is back on the road. It's a habit now.
Roy
Roy
D
Deleted member 3577
Guest
Guest
Offline
*Snicker*tony barnhill said:
Yea...I wear mine just to hold my backside on the seat around corners.
I doubt it would help much for anything else.
ronzet
Jedi Knight
Offline
My two cents worth RE: seat belts....
Due to the time, effort, and money that we put into these cars, not to mention the average age herein, most of us drive our cars carefully and cautiously...
'tis true that the seat belts will contribute little in safety in any roll-over, t-bone, rear-end. or front end accident. My concern is rarely that hairpin turn up ahead but rather the AIRHEAD SUV driver next to me about to move into my lane, or the one about to t-bone me at the intersection...
OR the guy tailgating me in the heavy duty pick-up truck raised 4 feet of the ground who will neatly and cleanly clear the top of the car of any biological or inert protrusions....
A seat belt in those cases will likely keep my remains, or at least the parts still attched to my legs, in place after the accident...
Due to the time, effort, and money that we put into these cars, not to mention the average age herein, most of us drive our cars carefully and cautiously...
'tis true that the seat belts will contribute little in safety in any roll-over, t-bone, rear-end. or front end accident. My concern is rarely that hairpin turn up ahead but rather the AIRHEAD SUV driver next to me about to move into my lane, or the one about to t-bone me at the intersection...
OR the guy tailgating me in the heavy duty pick-up truck raised 4 feet of the ground who will neatly and cleanly clear the top of the car of any biological or inert protrusions....
A seat belt in those cases will likely keep my remains, or at least the parts still attched to my legs, in place after the accident...
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
You'll be easy to identify at least because you'll be a permanent part of the car & all they'll have to do is run your license plate!
D
Deleted member 3577
Guest
Guest
Offline
I my case the news report will say this...
So & so died.
No wife/No children
Not wearing seat belts
Had been drinking & driving an unsafe car.
By the end of the report, everyone will be convinced that the world is better off.
Media is so low class.
So & so died.
No wife/No children
Not wearing seat belts
Had been drinking & driving an unsafe car.
By the end of the report, everyone will be convinced that the world is better off.
Media is so low class.
ronzet
Jedi Knight
Offline
WhatsThatNoise,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]By the end of the report, everyone will be convinced that the world is better off.
[/QUOTE]
Not true.... Anyone who loves and drives these cars adds to the wonder and beauty of this world and this life....
How many times have you seen a smile on a stranger's face as you drive by, or a wave from a passerby, or the 'cool car, Mister' from one of junior citizens...
Our contribution is giving others the re-lived memory, the nostalgic sigh, the simple joy that we bring to those we do not know..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]By the end of the report, everyone will be convinced that the world is better off.
[/QUOTE]
Not true.... Anyone who loves and drives these cars adds to the wonder and beauty of this world and this life....
How many times have you seen a smile on a stranger's face as you drive by, or a wave from a passerby, or the 'cool car, Mister' from one of junior citizens...
Our contribution is giving others the re-lived memory, the nostalgic sigh, the simple joy that we bring to those we do not know..
D
Deleted member 3577
Guest
Guest
Offline
It worries me when my brother takes off in the Vixen.
That car is about as flimsy as mine.
A responsible parent would crush their LBC rather than pass it down.
Sounds horrible I know...
These are NOT safe cars!
(Well the small/overpowered fiberglass ones anyway)
That car is about as flimsy as mine.
A responsible parent would crush their LBC rather than pass it down.
Sounds horrible I know...
These are NOT safe cars!
(Well the small/overpowered fiberglass ones anyway)