TR2/3/3A Steering question

[CJD]

Well, on the bright side...good work getting the engine running! I know that has been a hard road...

 

[Leatherman]

I had the exact same thing when I test drove my car for the first time after assembly. Found out I had not torqued the nuts up tight on the U bracket holding the rear axel to the springs. They were up snug but not tight. After tightening up to spec the rather harsh jerking stoped. Put a torque wrench on yours and tighten to the proper speck that’s in the manual.

 

[sp53]

Both--- if I punch it, it pulls right and when I let off it falls back to the spot before I punched it. The movement is not crazy bad, but it is not correct.
could the car have some supper low gears.

I am no expert when it comes to gear ratios. I thought a 4-11 geared car had 41 teeth on the ring gear and 10 teeth on the pinion. A 37 toothed rear axle had 37 teeth and 10 on the pinion. Does that sound correct? If So could I be feeling a normal power movement. One weird thing to me is that both axles turn together.

I am getting curious enough to take the cover off the back and see, but I only have 145miles on the car. I did replace the seal and had the cover off once 4 years ago. I looked around for broken teeth and did not see any and just put it in the car.


It kinda reminds me of my Turbo Saab with 280hp. When I punch the Saab, the car darts and I have to keep it straight, a little. The tr3 has no ware near the power, but kinda the same effect.

steve

 

[sp53]

Today if I feel up to I will go under the car and check the U bolts, yesterday kicked my xxx. That was one of my gut reactions. Do you remember the setting Leatherman, like 20lbs. Charley I had my wife turn one wheel and I tried to hold the other they are locked together somehow. Thanks John yes this car provided an excellent education. I would like to drive the car some more before I do much more serious work. I think it has around 140 miles on it and I am still letting the engine valves rattle with the brake in, but it starts right up, no leaks on the carbs, shuts right off, and idles a little high at 1,100 to 1000, but it is a keeper.

steve

 

[charleyf]

Today if I feel up to I will go under the car and check the U bolts, yesterday kicked my xxx. That was one of my gut reactions. Do you remember the setting Leatherman, like 20lbs. Charley I had my wife turn one wheel and I tried to hold the other they are locked together somehow.

steve

Sounds like you need to take a peek into that rear axle to see for sure.
My book says 28-30 lbs. Torque on those U bolts.
Charley

 

[sp53]

The Leatherman was exactly correct; I went under the car and nuts on U bolts where snug but loose. I tightened the nut with the car on the ground with no jacking the car up because I had heard suspension should be done that way. I did not use a torque wrench because it was physically tight, but wish I would have now. I tightened them tight with a ½ drive probably torqued at 30 to 35. Everything was creaking as I tighten them up.

Took the car out and everything was fixed. It really made a big difference. Thanks Leatherman for your help, I do not know when or how I would have found that problem, thanks!

Now for the interesting part, the tightening of the nuts shifted the hood and door body gaps. The hood is too tight in the front and actually stuck. I cannot get a piece of paper in the gap. The doors are a little uneven. I should take some pics.

I am very concerned about opening the hood without chipping the paint because the hood is stuck against the apron. I think I can loosen the hinge bolts inside the cab, but the duzs are holding the hood in place in the front, so if I did loosen the hinges in the back the hood probably would not move until the duzs are released.

A more conservative way would be go back and loosen the U bolts and see if the tub moves back then open the hood and play around with the alignment. Perhaps I can lift the front up and it will drop down that little fuzz and I can open the hood. Any ideas about opening the hood are very welcome.

The good news is the problem is fixed and the car performs very well. Who would have thought tightening the U bolts effects body gap; it does big time. I had actually gotten kinda ok at driving it the way it was, but it was no fun driving and every shift had to be thought out and I had to hold the wheel tight and to the left and allow for the movement. i still only have 140 miles on it.

steve

 

[Hamish Racing]

I have all the hard steering bushes and it doesn’t wander or do unwanted moves.

as it happens on the overrun I would be looking at something being loose. And then overrun allows a torque effect.
is it steering box or rack.
Don’t ignore the back axle as contributing to this phenomena in these circumstances ok under power and shifting when you lift off

 

[sp53]

have all the hard steering bushes and it doesn’t wander or do unwanted moves.

as it happens on the overrun I would be looking at something being loose. And then overrun allows a torque effect.
is it steering box or rack.
Don’t ignore the back axle as contributing to this phenomena in these circumstances ok under power and shifting when you lift off

 

[sp53]

My mind got stuck on the nylon bushings Hamish and when said the hard bushings are no problem. I knew you were probably correct. I did not read the rest of your post carful enough. You were right on all the time and explained it so well. I just missed it.

steve

 

[Hamish Racing]

Just glad you found the cure

little concerned that tightening the u bolts have affected the body though.

 

[sp53]

The body seams were very tight to begin with maybe 1/16 of an inch. This was my first-- cut the car in half--- body job, and I wanted tight seams and perfection, so I could be cool, and I made a lot of work that was painful and problematic. Losing my coolness too.

Anyways, I guess I will loosen the rear axle up some, to see if that frees the hood; it is the smartest bet I see. When I pulled away for the test drive, the hood rattled for the first time then stopped, looks like it went down some weird, but I went for it away because I needed to know.

Seems to me, the spring arched up-- when I tightened the U bolts--- and pushed the back of the car--- up and forward a 1/16. Hope so, this car has been a great teacher plus all the help here--- heck John basically taught me how to paint online with this forum on that car .

steve

 

[CJD]

Darting under throttle is ALWAYS the rear end.

I am baffled that tightening the springs could affect the gaps.

 

[Leatherman]

Steve I posted on the Triumph Experience that my car was darting left on accelerating and then would dart back to the right when taking the foot of the accelerator. It turned out the axle was loose on the springs. I tighten up the nuts on the u bolts and that solved the problem. Some times it’s the simple things . Your pictures look like you have a recent restoration on your frame / suspension so if you replaced the bushings on the rear springs and shocks that should be good. If they are worn out that might allow the axle / springs to shift.

 

[sp53]

I need to re-synthetize my theory. My latest version is the hood was lose and slid down to the apron either by twisting with acceleration from the lose differential or the hood bolts were not tight enough. Yesterday I loosen the U bolts and it made very, very little difference with hood, so I went to loosen the hinge bolts from under the dash on the hood and they were not tight either. I carefully opened the dzus fasteners and pushed the hood back toward the windshield at the same time with everything lose and got a nice 3/16 cap at the hood and apron then tightened the U bolts again and everything is fine.

Only having 140 miles on this car and the type of problems I have had has made me a lunatic. Now that the new cam is in and the engine running nice and the steering is working nice, I feel a lot better about this restoration.

The lifters tick when cold and part of me wants to quite the motor down by adjusting them, but I might wait until 250 miles or maybe the full 500 before considering the engine broke in and doing the valve adjustment.

Thanks you guys Steve

 

[Hamish Racing]

Steve. It’s all coming together nicely well done.
yes agree put at least 350 miles on it then do the head re-tightening valve adjustment and oil/filter change then get out there and enjoy your hard work and the Red line

 

[CJD]

Be sure to post a few final restoration pics, preferably with some of the Washington scenery in the background!

 

[sp53]

will do

 

[billspohn]

One thing that people tend to take for granted is that the rear end is fixed on the springs, but it is not at all unusual for there to be a bit of stretch on the U bolts and sometimes the rear end is actually loose enough that the rear of the car steers a bit. If that is what is happening, it can be fixed by tightening the nuts or better yet, replacing the U bolts with new ones.

I've also seen this sort of steering when the lower A arm bushes were thrashed but it doesn't sound like that is the problem in this case.