TR2/3/3A Steering Issue?

[karls59tr]

I rebuilt the steering box and set up the front end to spec. When going for a test drive I found that the steering wheel wanted to be off from center about 8 degrees to the left instead of straight ahead when driving straight. I thought I would pull the steering wheel off and re center it which would also help with the turn signal cancelling. I jacked the car up so the front wheels would be off the ground to make centering easy before I pulled the wheel. The odd thing is that with the wheels off the ground and straight ahead the steering wheel sits straight ahead and any movement left or right moves the wheels accordingly. ie. I move the steering wheel left or right and there is no 8 degree off center like there is when I'm driving? Also with the wheels on the ground there is a certain amount of left to right play before the steering wheel actually turns the wheels. Do I just need to tighten the adjuster screw down a bit more?....I don't want to go too tight as the steering wheel will be too hard to turn. Hope this makes sense. Any thoughts?
Karl

 

[CJD]

The steering box has a positive center position. When in this position, the worm and peg should have just a little bit of drag. When you move either side of center, there is noticeable play, even with a brand new and properly adjusted box. Here is the order you must assemble the steering:

1) with the steering linkage disconnected from the steering box pitman arm, turn the steering from lock to lock and count the number of turns. Then, starting from one lock, turn 1/2 the total to bring the gear to center.

2) Your steering wheel MUST be centered at this point. I still do not mount the steering wheel yet, but if it is mounted already, make sure that it is centered.

3) Gently rock the steering back and forth over center and you should feel a point, right at center, where there is noticeable drag. If you are turning the steering shaft by hand and without the wheel, it should be very noticeable. If you have the steering wheel installed, the wheel leverage will make it barely perceptible. If it is tooo much or not noticeable, then unlock the adjuster on the steering box and adjust until you get the slight drag as you rock back and forth past center.

4) Now, install the steering wheel at the exact center. Then install the trafficator so it cancels at the same number of turns left or right. Installing the trafficator usually takes a couple or three tries to get it centered.

5) Once all the above has been done, you can re-connect the steering link to the gear pitman arm.

6) Loosen the steering tie rod sleeve adjusters on both sides of the car.

7) Lower the car onto its own suspension and on a flat section of pavement. Rock the car back a few feet, and then forward to a stop while keeping the steering wheel perfectly centered...best to have someone in the drivers seat so it doesn't roll away down the driveway!

8) When you push the car forward, note which way it goes with the steering wheel held centered. Turn the tie rod adjuster sleeves an equal number of turns to bring the front wheels in the direction you need the car to go to straighten out. Also, step about 10 feet in front of the car and bend down so you can sight the front tire on each side to its rear tire. The left and right tires should sight to align up with the rear tires, or only just noticeably line up just outside the rear tires. This is to ensure your toe is not out.

8a) to clarify step 8, picture if you have a helper hold a straight edge horizontally against your front tire, about 6" above the ground. Then, you stand in front of the straight edge and site down it to where the site line meets the road at the rear tire contact spot. That site spot should be from on the outer edge of the rear tire to no more than 1/2" outboard of the rear tire. That will give you 0 to 1/2degree toe in.

9) repeat steps 7 and 8 until your car tracks straight. As you get close, you may need to take a short drive to make sure it tracks perfectly straight with no toe out to very slight toe in.

10) tighten your tie rod adjuster sleeves.

11) Jack your front end up again and set your lock stops behind the trunnions for the most travel of the steering without any parts contacting each other.


That's the order that must be followed to get a superb driving TR. If you jump ahead anywhere, then you must go back, as all later steps affect the earlier steps. Best of luck...

 

[Frank Canale]

Great explanation, John. won't be doing this for awhile but I have the procedure and that is half the battle. Frank

 

[sp53]

That would defiantly work! Mine is a little off and the canceller is off a little off on the left, but does barely shut off. When I set up the next one, I will roll the car to help center everything at 12 0clock.

 

[karls59tr]

The steering box has a positive center position. When in this position, the worm and peg should have just a little bit of drag. When you move either side of center, there is noticeable play, even with a brand new and properly adjusted box. Here is the order you must assemble the steering:

1) with the steering linkage disconnected from the steering box pitman arm, turn the steering from lock to lock and count the number of turns. Then, starting from one lock, turn 1/2 the total to bring the gear to center.

2) Your steering wheel MUST be centered at this point. I still do not mount the steering wheel yet, but if it is mounted already, make sure that it is centered.

3) Gently rock the steering back and forth over center and you should feel a point, right at center, where there is noticeable drag. If you are turning the steering shaft by hand and without the wheel, it should be very noticeable. If you have the steering wheel installed, the wheel leverage will make it barely perceptible. If it is tooo much or not noticeable, then unlock the adjuster on the steering box and adjust until you get the slight drag as you rock back and forth past center.

4) Now, install the steering wheel at the exact center. Then install the trafficator so it cancels at the same number of turns left or right. Installing the trafficator usually takes a couple or three tries to get it centered.

5) Once all the above has been done, you can re-connect the steering link to the gear pitman arm.

6) Loosen the steering tie rod sleeve adjusters on both sides of the car.

7) Lower the car onto its own suspension and on a flat section of pavement. Rock the car back a few feet, and then forward to a stop while keeping the steering wheel perfectly centered...best to have someone in the drivers seat so it doesn't roll away down the driveway!

8) When you push the car forward, note which way it goes with the steering wheel held centered. Turn the tie rod adjuster sleeves an equal number of turns to bring the front wheels in the direction you need the car to go to straighten out. Also, step about 10 feet in front of the car and bend down so you can sight the front tire on each side to its rear tire. The left and right tires should sight to align up with the rear tires, or only just noticeably line up just outside the rear tires. This is to ensure your toe is not out.

8a) to clarify step 8, picture if you have a helper hold a straight edge horizontally against your front tire, about 6" above the ground. Then, you stand in front of the straight edge and site down it to where the site line meets the road at the rear tire contact spot. That site spot should be from on the outer edge of the rear tire to no more than 1/2" outboard of the rear tire. That will give you 0 to 1/2degree toe in.

9) repeat steps 7 and 8 until your car tracks straight. As you get close, you may need to take a short drive to make sure it tracks perfectly straight with no toe out to very slight toe in.

10) tighten your tie rod adjuster sleeves.

11) Jack your front end up again and set your lock stops behind the trunnions for the most travel of the steering without any parts contacting each other.


That's the order that must be followed to get a superb driving TR. If you jump ahead anywhere, then you must go back, as all later steps affect the earlier steps. Best of luck...

Thanks for the info. In regard to 8a would one of those pen size laser pointers be useful for this step?

 

[sp53]

You will feel it in your hands as a little rub in the center then you are done with that nut and screw.

 

[CJD]

You can always rig some fancy gizmo to site down the front wheel...but my rational for just using my eye is that I can site down a shotgun to hit clay pigeons at 30 yards, and down a rifle to hit spot on at 100 yards, so siting 8 feet from front wheel to rear is not difficult with your bare eyes alone.

 

[karls59tr]

The steering box has a positive center position. When in this position, the worm and peg should have just a little bit of drag. When you move either side of center, there is noticeable play, even with a brand new and properly adjusted box. Here is the order you must assemble the steering:

1) with the steering linkage disconnected from the steering box pitman arm, turn the steering from lock to lock and count the number of turns. Then, starting from one lock, turn 1/2 the total to bring the gear to center.

2) Your steering wheel MUST be centered at this point. I still do not mount the steering wheel yet, but if it is mounted already, make sure that it is centered.

3) Gently rock the steering back and forth over center and you should feel a point, right at center, where there is noticeable drag. If you are turning the steering shaft by hand and without the wheel, it should be very noticeable. If you have the steering wheel installed, the wheel leverage will make it barely perceptible. If it is tooo much or not noticeable, then unlock the adjuster on the steering box and adjust until you get the slight drag as you rock back and forth past center.

4) Now, install the steering wheel at the exact center. Then install the trafficator so it cancels at the same number of turns left or right. Installing the trafficator usually takes a couple or three tries to get it centered.

5) Once all the above has been done, you can re-connect the steering link to the gear pitman arm.

6) Loosen the steering tie rod sleeve adjusters on both sides of the car.

7) Lower the car onto its own suspension and on a flat section of pavement. Rock the car back a few feet, and then forward to a stop while keeping the steering wheel perfectly centered...best to have someone in the drivers seat so it doesn't roll away down the driveway!

8) When you push the car forward, note which way it goes with the steering wheel held centered. Turn the tie rod adjuster sleeves an equal number of turns to bring the front wheels in the direction you need the car to go to straighten out. Also, step about 10 feet in front of the car and bend down so you can sight the front tire on each side to its rear tire. The left and right tires should sight to align up with the rear tires, or only just noticeably line up just outside the rear tires. This is to ensure your toe is not out.

8a) to clarify step 8, picture if you have a helper hold a straight edge horizontally against your front tire, about 6" above the ground. Then, you stand in front of the straight edge and site down it to where the site line meets the road at the rear tire contact spot. That site spot should be from on the outer edge of the rear tire to no more than 1/2" outboard of the rear tire. That will give you 0 to 1/2degree toe in.

9) repeat steps 7 and 8 until your car tracks straight. As you get close, you may need to take a short drive to make sure it tracks perfectly straight with no toe out to very slight toe in.

10) tighten your tie rod adjuster sleeves.

11) Jack your front end up again and set your lock stops behind the trunnions for the most travel of the steering without any parts contacting each other.


That's the order that must be followed to get a superb driving TR. If you jump ahead anywhere, then you must go back, as all later steps affect the earlier steps. Best of luck...

Hi CJD Just a clarification: When you say "with the steering linkage disconnected from the steering box pitman arm" you mean that the center tie rod linkage is removed from the drop arm(pitman arm) rather than the drop arm removed from the steering box...correct?

 

[CJD]

Either way will work. The cross shaft has rubber bearings that interfere with the adjustment...so as long as you remove the cross shaft from the steering gear you will be good. The drop arm (pitman arm) may still be attached.

 

[Frank Canale]

I am using this post as motivation to make some progress other that on sheet metal repairs. Decided to tackle cleaning up steering box and attached steering linkage. Really grungy but so far no real surprises. I could use some advice on the steering pin. The steering box had very little gear oil in it and as I turned the steering shaft I was not able to detect any resistance at center. Everything moved freely but I would not say that it was sloppy either. The worm gear at the end of the steering shaft does not show any sign of wear or scoring but there does look to be some surface pitting on one face of the worm gear. The peg does show very minor wear and was wondering if it best to press the peg out and replace it with a new one or rotate the original one. The bushing in the steering box shows a good .004" of wear and I have removed it and plan to replace it and ream it to match the shaft. The stator tube was broken off at the top so it will need to be replaced. The lantern bearing is in excellent shape. The rubber bearing/ bushing that supports the upper end of the steering shaft just below the splined connection has mushy rubber so I plan to replace it. Center drag link has minor wear in the center where it has been rubbing on something. I pressed out the rubber silentbloc and plan on going with the delrin silentbloc replacement. The tie rod ends look to be in very bad shape so I will be replacing them. Everything is bead blasted good as new and ready to start putting back together when I get replacement parts. The mechanical side is more to my liking so a nice change of pace. Frank

 

[Graham H]

At least the rust proofing on the steering box looks to have worked ok Frank?

Graham

 

[CJD]

Wow...a non-bodywork item to check off!

I would probably just turn your current peg, as it is impossible to tell if the latest repro parts were heat treated properly, and there has been a history of some "soft" pegs. It doesn't take much wear for the center "bump" to get lost. Turning the peg and adjusting the box should bring it back.

If you use the main bushings from the big 3, they usually don't need to be reamed.

The wear on the center of the cross link is where it only has about 1/4" on the fan extension. If it rubs all the time, don't be afraid to bend it a hair to lower it away from the extension if you need to.

You've probably read my other posts, but the key to a good rebuild is to set the shim stack to get absolutely no play in the worm gear...but not so tight that the worm bearings start to drag. Then take up the slack with the top adjuster until you just feel the drag across center when hand turning the steering shaft. That gets all the play out without adding any internal friction.

Still enjoying your posts!

 

[Frank Canale]

Sorry to hijack your post Karl. Thanks to your post I took my steering box and linkage that had been hanging on the wall down and started the rebuild. Thank you John for the advice on the peg. I had not thought about the new pegs not being as hard. I like the idea of keeping the original and rotating it. The old peg has held up well with minimal maintenance from the PO. Macey's garage website has a nice write up on the rebuild so I will try and post updates as how it goes when I get parts. Frank

 

[sp53]

The center “rub” is in the geometry of the complete system hooked up as one. You will feel center rub when you get it all installed and turn the steering wheel left to right as you get close to finally adjustment. I think that is what you are asking; the drag link can go in wrong 180 out if the silent bushing were put in from the wrong side that is if IIRC . There is a small off set at the end of the link holes flip it around a few times I think you will see it. The drag link should not rub, but it gets close maybe ½ to ¾ inches.

Steve

 

[pdplot]

At the risk of starting a flame war, I say junk that archaic steering box and do what Triumph did - switch to rack & pinion steering. Do yourself a big favor.

 

[Frank Canale]

no problem pdplot, I respect all opinions. I could have gone that way when I fixed the chassis, but I decided I wanted to experience the car the way it was originally designed. I am a fabricator and will enjoy properly setting up the steering box so that it will also have a positive feel. It may not be the best steering design but I am making some upgrades that will enhance my driving experience. I don't plan to do any racing so I feel that rack and pinion steering would take away from a step back in time. I have never ridden in a TR3 and never driven one so I am having a blast building mine, dreaming of what it will be like to take that first drive. Frank

 

[pdplot]

I was an original TR3 owner back in 1956. That steering box never worked great even from new. You were always tightening that stupid peg, hoping it wouldn't bind. Maybe they improved it in later models, I don't know.

 

[Hamish Racing]

My steering box works really well so don’t condemn them out of hand. I also run very sticky 185/55x15 tyres in competition (185/70x15 on the road)
Steering is a little heavy doing parking manoeuvring. The trick is to be moving a bit to turn the wheel.
this is me couple weeks ago ( ignore the first run missfire !!)

All my steering arm are bronze bushed

TRACK CONTROL PIN KIT 2 X 105063U BUSH PB

These replacement track control pins will keep your front wheels pointing in the correct direction and outlive the original rubber parts many times over.

www.revingtontr.com

and i have the Akerman arm kit too I use a gl4 EP90 oil in the steering box not the thick grease that is recommended.
REVINGTON TR is the go to place in the uk for steering parts. They have also got a sprung loaded top lid which helps tighten any sloppyness in the box. (ive not needed that yet)

TOP PLATE STEERING BOX TR2-3B LHD

This cover is for LHD Fitment (steering wheel on left hand side when sitting in the car ) and incorporates a spring-loaded pin, which keeps the rocker pin firmly in contact with the scroll, thus removing unwanted 'slop' from the steering. This improvement can also be used on some AC models...

www.revingtontr.com

Suspension and steering

I don’t get commission or a discount. But they are generous and sponsor the tr register club sprint championship
Their prices are - at the tip of the range- but they fit and work.

Frank Check it out and decide for yourself. Easier to do it well the first time rather than have to strip it down again later

 

[Frank Canale]

Thank you Hamish. Great to know you are using the steering box. I am rebuilding the box with the delrin silentbloc upgrade. I have worked on the mating surfaces of the covers to make sure it seals up as I plan on running gear oil rather than grease. Love the videos. Frank

 

[sp53]

One thing to watch for on the steering box is that the little 3x3 inch end piece is not bent. If the end was over tightened by the PO to stop leaking, that little piece warps, bends, and leaks. For me it was hard to find because I could not see how that small piece could warp. The bend is difficult to see if you are not looking for it because it is sooooo small. Basically what happens is end piece bends around the shim pack and leaks at the fastening holes of the end piece and the sealer does not seal because the sealant gets smushed out making the pack adjustment.