Steering Adjustment: Only Toe-Out

[ties581006]

Putting SN50101 100-6 together and I'm having trouble adjusting the steering. I've got the cross rod as short as it goes and there is an obvious toe-out remaining. Searching threads indicates the most common cause is to have the steering arms reversed. The arms on my car do slant up correctly. I believe the rest of the front suspension is assembled correctly. The engine and transmission are installed in the car and the car is supported on dollys under the wheels.

As part of the restoration, I replaced the tie rods and also the ends of the cross rod. I can only conclude (probably wrong) that either the tie rods or the cross rod ends are too long. Of course, as an idiot I threw away the old parts. With the cross rod adjusted as short as it goes, the distance from center of one end bolt to the center of the other is 23". An attached picture shows how this dim was taken. The tie rods are 12" from center of pivot to center of pivot. This is also shown in a picture.

If anyone would take a look at the pictures to check for assembly errors and maybe take a measurement of a cross rod on an operating car as well as the length of the tie rods it would be much appreciated. Are there differing lengths of tie rods on big Healeys? I think the replace tie rods are from Moss.

Thanks much for any ideas.

 

[red57]

I just checked and mine is at about 22 5/8" center to center measured as yours is pictured. I don't see anything obviously incorrect in your pictures. I seem to remember having to shorten the ends on mine at some point in the past - but I don't remember any details. BTW, I suggest using 2" blocks under the upper a-arms opposite the rubber bumpers, that way you don't have to set it on the wheels to do initial checks.

Hopefully others will check their center to center dimensions.

 

[steveg]

My car's been professionally aligned... Tie rod ends within a hair of 22-5/8". I measured the cross tube at exactly 19-11/16".

 

[ties581006]

Thank you, red57 and steveg. Very helpful. My cross tube is also 19 11/16" but the shortest I can adjust the ends, center to center, is 23". Another 3/8" might be enough to align. This points to the replacement cross tube ends as being longer than the originals. Before I modify (mess up) the cross tube to compensate, I want to be sure that the tie rods are the correct length since I replaced those as well.

My tie rods are 12" long center to center. I hope that is the correct terminology. These are the rods that go from the steering idler arm and the steering box arm to their respective spindle steering arms. These have been replaced with Moss parts as well.

This forum is great. My son is on car forums and they consist mostly of sarcasm and rude put-downs. None of that here and it is so appreciated.

Mike

 

[steveg]

Mike,
Perhaps you could undo one of the center tie rod ends from the pittman arm and tighten the tube on the other one then thread the tie rod end as far in as it will go - then you might achieve the 22-5/8".

There's only one side rod listed in Moss.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

...

This forum is great. My son is on car forums and they consist mostly of sarcasm and rude put-downs. None of that here and it is so appreciated.

Mike

We have an all-powerful overlord who forbids such nonsense

 

[red57]

Mike,
I just checked my cross tube and have 19 1/4". This tells me I shortened the tube rather than the ends. I suggest removing the jamb juts and see if you can get down to 22 1/2" (you want some extra for adjustment) before bottoming in the holes. If you can, then you should be able to remove 3/16-1/4" from each end of the tube and get where you need to be.

My side rods (and some old ones I have) are also 12"

Dave

 

[ties581006]

Steve G, good idea but both ends of the cross tube are pretty much all the way in, so doing one at a time won't make much difference.
red57, thanks for the dim on your side rods and also your cross tube length. I'll try removing the jam nuts as you suggest and see what that buys in terms of alignment. The big thing is now I'm confident that the cross rod is the problem and can focus on how to best modify.

Again, very helpful and appreciated.

Mike

 

[steveg]

Pretty amazing we have a standard setup and have to trim a standard part to make it work.

 

[steveg]

We have an all-powerful overlord who forbids such nonsense

I'm involved in the other forum's Triumph section. If there's a moderator, he sees no need to wake up for mere insults and name-calling. This forum is an oasis by comparison.

 

[Editor_Reid]

I've been the moderator here in the AH Forum for all 21+ years that the BCF has existed. I think I've averaged something like one intervention about every two years, and I can just about count on the fingers of one hand the number of posts I've deleted over the course of all those years.

The regulars here have great knowledge and share it freely, and the spirit of friendly mutual support is terrific. I'm grateful for such a terrific group of contributors and also grateful to "Basil" - the owner-operator of the BCF - for the enormous effort and $$$$$ he has put into the BCF for those 2+ decades. If you believe that you also benefit, I encourage you to consider making a contribution to the BCF. I do, every year, like an annual subscription.

We've got a good thing going here - please keep up the great contributions and positive, friendly spirit!

 

[ties581006]

steveg, I must not be working with all standard parts. It appears that the replacement cross rod ends are a different length. The same situation may be what caused red57 to have to shorten his cross rod.

Anyone else experience an alignment challenge after replacing the cross rod ends?

 

[Jack T]

Putting SN50101 100-6 together and I'm having trouble adjusting the steering. I've got the cross rod as short as it goes and there is an obvious toe-out remaining. Searching threads indicates the most common cause is to have the steering arms reversed. The arms on my car do slant up correctly. I believe the rest of the front suspension is assembled correctly. The engine and transmission are installed in the car and the car is supported on dollys under the wheels.

As part of the restoration, I replaced the tie rods and also the ends of the cross rod. I can only conclude (probably wrong) that either the tie rods or the cross rod ends are too long. Of course, as an idiot I threw away the old parts. With the cross rod adjusted as short as it goes, the distance from center of one end bolt to the center of the other is 23". An attached picture shows how this dim was taken. The tie rods are 12" from center of pivot to center of pivot. This is also shown in a picture.

If anyone would take a look at the pictures to check for assembly errors and maybe take a measurement of a cross rod on an operating car as well as the length of the tie rods it would be much appreciated. Are there differing lengths of tie rods on big Healeys? I think the replace tie rods are from Moss.

Thanks much for any ideas.

View attachment 75153View attachment 75154View attachment 75155View attachment 75156

You said there is an obvious toe-out condition, but have you actually measured? I tried the eyeball adjustment years ago and ended up with severe toe-in. Don't know if it's just my car, but with the proper toe-in you would swear it has toe-out if you look at it.

 

[ties581006]

Good point on actual measurement or eyeball. It is just eyeballing it so far but it appears pretty clear that it is still toe out when the cross rod is adjusted as short as it goes. Elsewhere on this forum is information about making a tool for alignment and taking that measurement. I need to do that before getting too aggressive with the cross rod. Thanks for the input.

Mike

 

[Bob_Spidell]

If you believe that you also benefit, I encourage you to consider making a contribution to the BCF. I do, every year, like an annual subscription.

We've got a good thing going here - please keep up the great contributions and positive, friendly spirit!

Hi Reid (O/T, but I think I'll be forgiven). I'd like to contribute, but can't find a link (I contribute to shareware I use, and other charities, but prefer to do a 'one time' when I'm feeling flush and/or charitable; I have contributed to Basil's charity). How can I do that here?

 

[Editor_Reid]

Hi Reid (O/T, but I think I'll be forgiven). I'd like to contribute, but can't find a link (I contribute to shareware I use, and other charities, but prefer to do a 'one time' when I'm feeling flush and/or charitable; I have contributed to Basil's charity). How can I do that here?

Try this page, although it may look different to you because you're not logged in as me, but in any case have a look and we'll take it from there:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/community/account/upgrades

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Done. I hope this isn't 'automatic renewal' (I prefer to have options).

 

[Editor_Reid]

Done. I hope this isn't 'automatic renewal' (I prefer to have options).

IIRC, I get an email each year asking if I want to donate again. And thank you for supporting the BCF both with $$$ and with your valued participation here in the AH Forum!

 

[Bob_Spidell]

You are quite welcome. Now, back to the show ...

FWIW, there was a thread here not too long ago where poster had a similar problem. One of the gurus pointed out that the 'steering arms'--I hadn't heard that term before--were installed backwards. I can't tell from the photos, but you might want to have a look at that possibility; esp. since you're assembling from 'scratch' (nothing else should change much on these parts). One of the few things I haven't done wrong, but I did install anti-sway bar brackets backwards and, of course, could not get the sway bar connected.

 

[Basil]

This forum is great. My son is on car forums and they consist mostly of sarcasm and rude put-downs. None of that here and it is so appreciated.

LOL, if people engage in such nonsense, our moderator overloards will visit them in the small hours and put a bat up their night dress.