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Starter trouble--Local lifetime replacment?

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Tremelune

Tremelune

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So, my starter just goes "whiiir" after I beat on it today. Previously, it would whir every now and again, but would be fine if I gave it another shot. It continues to spin with enthusiastic fervor, but now it doesn't engage the motor. I very much want the car to be drivable this weekend. There is a lady involved, and even the best of them prefer not to push me around as a matter of course.

After doing some research here, I'm going to pull the starter and monkey with it and see if a simple cleaning and some graphite fixes things, but if I can go down to Kragen/Napa/AutoZone near San Francisco and buy a $50 replacement that will last another ten years, I'm not going to mess around too much (unless it's super easy to get in and out--writeup?). I wouldn't mind replacing it with a modern "upgrade" either.

Are these common parts for a 1965 Sprite (part number)? If I can get one tonight before the store closes, I would feel a bit better. I feel like a 1971 Plymouth replacement part might also be pretty rare...

Worst case, I think the one that's in there is a lifetime Bosch, but I don't want to lose a day figuring out that, yup, it's broken or waiting for anything to be shipped.
 
NAPA, NAE 16121, or PME 16121

Same starter, different "level" and price.
 
Wow and wow, thanks. The NAE has a "limited lifetime" warranty and the other has a three year warranty. I didn't know Napa got a good parts searcher...Too bad they just closed.
 
You don't have to jack up a Sprite to replace the starter.
It's a bend over the fender job but a helper to hold the inside bolt in the slave hole helps or a strategically placed 9/16 wrench in the hole as you use a ratchet from the top side reaching under the starter.
I just did one tonight, 10 minutes tops.
 
You've gotta be kidding me--How do I get at both ends of that bottom bolt?? Will the starter fit out without removing the distributor? I guess I'll take another look.

The manual I have ain't that helpful.
 
Easy stuff, we have all done it. Like the man says 10 min tops including finding the correct wrench.
 
Well, I got it off. I had to use two 9/16" sockets with extensions. I managed to get it out through a hole in the floorpan that (I believe) the previous owner enlarged for this very purpose...It was a very tight fit. I don't know how I'll get this thing back in the car.

When I pulled it, I was dismayed to find a great deal of sludge and metal filings attached to the starter through-bolts as well as the internal wall of where the flywheel is. Here are two shots, the latter after I swiped through the sludge with a finger:

starter-sludge.jpg
starter-sludge-swipe.jpg


Should I be worried about this? I can only see a few flywheel teeth, but they look fine. The gears on the starter also look fine (though I don't know what I'm looking for):

starter-gear.jpg
starter-sleeve-gear.jpg


The sleeve that engages the starter to the flywheel, on the other hand, shows signs of wear...though it doesn't seem to be from rubbing the starter gear. I'm not sure what it could have been rubbing:

starter-sleeve.jpg



I tested the starter on the bench, and when power is applied, the sleeve leaps to engage the starter gear. When I apply power while it is spinning down, the sleeve spins, suspended without engaging. When I let it spin to a stop, and then apply power, the sleeve leaps to engage again. Turning the sleeve with my hand, there is a <span style="font-style: italic">slight</span> feel of friction about mid-way through...Very slight.

My guess is, if I cleaned it up and put on some graphite, it would last a while longer. That said, it's a 13-year-old remanufactured part...one which isn't much fun to replace. I'm going to see if I can find a "new" part locally. If I can save myself from doing this again next year (or this weekend), I think it'll be worth it.
 
I was happy see what appeared to be a new, beefy power cable on the starter. I was not happy to see this ground strap attached to the frame:

ground-strap.jpg


Thing isn't even insulated...The starter has always felt like it receives good power, though.
 
O.K not to insulate a ground. Chabge if needed and clean up your contact points on the frame, starter etc.. I got mine from Pep for $50, but now am having trouble getting replacements as they don't carry or list it anymore.
 
Sorry to say... but it looks like you have a chewed up ring gear. You can hook the starter up to 12v with a pair of jumper cables. If it jumps to life, the culprit is your ring gear (the gear teeth that surround the flywheel). You can re-install the starter, then push the car forward in gear. This should expose the starter to some good teeth on the flywheel. If the starter works after that, you know your culprit is the ring gear.
 
Is there any way to inspect the entire ring gear? I guess I could put it in top gear and try to spin the rear wheels...

Presumably replacing the ring gear is a big deal.

The starter issue started about a mile down the road (I bumped it and drove home), so the position of the ring gear has changed since then (in other words, here's hoping it's the starter...)
 
I had enough starter to keep repairing one to good working condition. However they would always fail in a year or 2. will I finally ran out of parts and was forced to buy a new one. It has been trouble free for years
Buy a good new one and save the starter ring. Had to replace that due to bad engagement
 
I checked out the ring gear by putting the car in top gear, wedging something underneath one of the wheels, and taking turns rolling the other wheel forward and looking at the ring. Looks find to me.

I wiped out as much sludge as I can from the housing and cleaned the gear/bendix with half a can of brake cleaner. I'm going to put some dry graphite on there, put it back in the car, and hope for the best.

One thing I wish I had done before pulling it was try jumping the car with my truck. From what I've read, a weak current to the starter (due to corrosion or a weak battery) can cause the starter to spin, but not spin fast enough to generate the centripetal force necessary to engage the bendix. My starter has always been very strong, but I probably used a lot of battery juice trying to get it going that last time.
 
ANY Bendix will do that with low enough batery.
It's the inertia of a fast jolt that slings the Bendix in.
 
Which side you looking at? It's the backside you need to be concerned with.
 
Well, I feel a bit defeated. I got the starter lubed up with dry graphite, felt the bendix move freely and spin back, and reinstalled the starter...Same thing. It just spins without engaging the ring gear.

I jumped the car with my truck. I bridged the ground strap on the motor directly to the battery. I applied power directly from the battery to the positive post of the starter motor. Lights are still bright. Same thing every time. A strong whiiir and no engagement.

My only real recourse at this point is to take the starter to an autoparts store and see if they can test it "under load"...I don't get it. I stuck it in a vice and applied power and it sprang to life, bendix and all. Is there something special I need to do to install it besides shove it in there??
 
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