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Starter motor woes

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61frogeye

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I have searched all over trying to find an answer(s) to this problem. My original Lucas starter motor engages, but rarely stays engaged for more than a second or two then kicks out and spins free. Warm starts are no problem (1 quick pull), but cold starts take numerous attempts (15+) usually because the starter won't stay engaged.

This situation is constant and here are some facts: the electrical system is original (generator, + earth), the battery is in good condition-this occurs even after leaving the battery on a tender until it is fully charged, I have removed cleaned and snugged all connections from battery posts and grounding strap through to the starter motor. I have also made sure that the starter cable is adjusted so that it is giving a full pull on the starter switch.

Rebuild the starter if possible? New starter? Any help would be appreciated.
FYI; the car is all original except for cosmetics and I am going to try and keep it that way.

Thanks,
Dave
 
You probably need to replace the starter drive unit. The spring is either worn or broken. While you have it apart you might as well rebuild the entire unit. If you didn't want to keep it original I would recommend one of the high torque starters but your stock unit should be just fine once it is rebuilt.
 
Agree.
 
I have a couple of original starters that gave me a lot of problems. I can tell you that the engineer who designed it was drunk. The internals of the starter are very touchy and I was having similar issues to what you are having but much worse.

Inside the starter their are think copper wires that go from the top to the bottom where the cable connects. The problem I was having is that the wire was shorting, causing massive amounts of current to be drawn, which would drain the battery and not spin the flywheel fast enough for a cold start.

You may have a different issue where the wire isn't sitting in it's "connector" (terrible design) and therefore not getting enough current to start the car with a cold start.

Or it could be like stated above and the springs are worn. If it is the springs, LMK and for the price of shipping I have extras.

I ended up just buying a new Bosch starter for $100, works like a charm.
 
If you are interested, I have a good working, original Lucas starter that came from my 1275 engine. If this will work for you and you are interested, PM me and we can work something reasonable out.

Larry
 
Ryan, what is the Bosch part number and where did you get it? Is it a simple swap or will I have to modify it. Can it be used in a + earth car?
 
Dave... polarity doesn't matter. The biggest issue as Ryan described is the result of tightening the cable nut without holding the inner nut. And, it is admittedly difficult because the inner nut requires a very thin wrench and an odd size, and it's hard to reach. IF you take the starter out, I strongly recommend attaching the cable to the starter on the bench. Installing the cable to the solenoid is MUCH more accessible.

Peter C
 
Good advice, thanks Peter. My plan at this stage is to swap it with a good one then rebuild it and reinstall it.

Ryan, thanks for the offer-I will let you know when I get to that point.

Larry, I PM'd you.
 
61frogeye said:
Ryan, what is the Bosch part number and where did you get it? Is it a simple swap or will I have to modify it. Can it be used in a + earth car?
Click to expand...

I'll go out and look for a part number. I got it at Napa, but I can't seem to find it online anymore. If you go the Napa route, make sure to check both the Sprite and Midget...they don't seem to know they are basically the same car and have different parts for each.

I spent about $100 on it and it was a direct replacement for the original.
 
Just wanted to mention that I have a pile of good spridget starters but my pile of generator's are all bad! I always have thought the starter to be quite robust and can't really figure out why so many want to change to the gear reduction one. I did have to replace the spring on my BE. Broken. This was before I acquired my parts stash. In defense of the lucas generator I believe that what killed them was a bad regulator. Least thats been my experience.

Kurt.
 
The one I got at Napa is the original style starter. Oh, and I had to have my starter shipped from Georgia which ended up making it the same price as it would have been from Moss, just FYI.

The problem is that the starter is really violent and wears down the flywheel overtime. The newer plunger starters push the gear into the teeth of the flywheel before starter, making it much easier on the flywheel.
 
Yea hate to have to change the flywheel teeth every 50 years or so. LOL

Good point though, had not thought of that.
 
jlaird said:
Yea hate to have to change the flywheel teeth every 50 years or so. LOL

Good point though, had not thought of that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, when they used to make cars to last it wasn't an issue. Now they can use cheaper, less quality materials, praise technology!
 
Dave,

FYI.... I finally PM'd you back... sorry for the delay. Took a few days for the holidays and just got back to checking things here....

Larry Swofford
 
RyanBez said:
The one I got at Napa is the original style starter. Oh, and I had to have my starter shipped from Georgia which ended up making it the same price as it would have been from Moss, just FYI.

The problem is that the starter is really violent and wears down the flywheel overtime. The newer plunger starters push the gear into the teeth of the flywheel before starter, making it much easier on the flywheel.
Click to expand...
OK.... The Bosch starter is a NEW starter made in Asia someplace. That doesn't make it bad or better... just different. Some of the internals are different enough that available repair parts wont fit. I am a Bosch warehouse distributor, and have taken some "warranty" units apart to see the differences.

If you are suggesting that the gear reductions starters as used in Spridgets are less "violent", I must disagree as the drive is engaging from the "wrong" side of the flywheel teeth where there is no bevel. I used to point this out to folks, but the starters have proven to do pretty well despite this error.

Peter C.
 
This morning (27 degrees out, in my unheated garage) I swapped my ailing starter for a lightly used Lucas remanufactured unit I got from Larry Swofford here on BCF; starter problem solved, thanks Larry.

I also finished up the oil change I started 2 weeks ago before I got sick (to get the starter out you have to have the oil filter canister out of the way so....). This was my first BE oil change and I am now properly experienced in the art of holding together a primed oil filter canister while balancing the seal on the top of the contraption and................ :crazyeyes:
 
Ha, good description. Now you know why we change to screw on filters.
 
Ya, I see Moss has them for $150.00. I have parts for another filter change already purchased, after that I will seriously consider the change to the screw on set up.
 
About the starter I removed: there must be something very wrong internally because the outward appearance (springs and such) looks fine, mostly. The bottom of the starter (as it sits mounted) and the bottom of the snout that protrudes out the back of the block where the starter shaft lives have a lot of very crispy green paint flaking off in big chunks. Could be age and a harsh environment, or could be very excessive heat from a dyeing starter? Nothing else in the area has flaking paint. It may be similar to what Ryan described from his experience. It will be interesting to see the inside of it when I get the opportunity to tear it down. When I do I will describe what I find/take some pictures to get your opinions about whether or not it is worth rebuilding.
 
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