Stag Stag Value

[bash]

I am hoping to have a look at a Stag some time this week. The seller says he has had it for "a few years" without trying to start it. I know I won't be changing the oil and heading off into the sunset, and I am not frightened of getting my spanners dirty, but I don't want to get involved with something I can't fix due to lack of spares availibility. I suspect that with the engine not started for years I will have to strip it down and rebuild it, but Rimmer Bros have a rebuild kit for a sensible price in their Stag sale (started today, handily enough!). I am concerned about the head studs - is there any way I can check whether they are bonded to the head without actually trying to remove them?

It is a 73 car, hard and soft tops, looks to be in good shape body-wise (at least it looks solid in photos...), though the paint is tired. Seller says the interior is good except for some delaminating wood. I don't know the mileage yet, but it hasn't run for several years. Automatic (which means my wife might drive it) Any thoughts what a sensible price would be to offer? There don't seem to be enough around (for sale, at least) to give a good idea of the going rate. A blue one has been on ebay twice (that I know of) in comparable shape but with a number of high-cost spares included, and the bidding has stalled at about $2000, short of the reserve.

Is there anything I can check with the engine or gearbox? I am not even sure with an automatic whether I can try turning the engine over with a spanner on the crank - I know if I put it in neutral I can try to turn the engine, but with no juice in the battery can I even move the shifter into Neutral? In my mind there is some sort of switch from the ignition to prevent the shifter moving out of park, and this needs power. Am I wrong? I have a workshop manual on its way but doubt it will arrive in time to help with the inspection.

Thanks in advance for any advice
Alistair

 

[TR3driver]

I am concerned about the head studs - is there any way I can check whether they are bonded to the head without actually trying to remove them?

I don't know of any other way. However, if you only try one at a time, it shouldn't disturb the head gasket. But the safe assumption is that you will have trouble removing the heads.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] except for some delaminating wood.[/QUOTE]Note that the insrument panel is different for each year of US-spec Stags (which of course are different than other markets). Finding a proper replacement can be tricky, especially since pretty much all the originals have either been restored or are in poor shape. Mine didn't look too bad when I bought the car, but just crumbled when I tried to remove and disassemble it for repair.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Any thoughts what a sensible price would be to offer?[/QUOTE]Honestly, I'm not sure there is such a thing. Rebuilding a Stag engine can easily run $5k or more; and I paid less than that for a 'running' car (which does seem to have a healthy engine, thank goodness). There is a reason that so many of them have been re-engined.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I am not even sure with an automatic whether I can try turning the engine over with a spanner on the crank[/QUOTE]Should be no problem, but the ROM recommends a pipe wrench.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]with no juice in the battery can I even move the shifter into Neutral?[/QUOTE]I believe so. There is no provision for an interlock in the factory wiring diagrams and I've not seen it mentioned elsewhere.

But it should make no difference, the torque converter should let the engine turn regardless of what position the gearshift is in. Only the output shaft gets locked in Park; and the engine has to be turning several hundred rpm to engage any other gear.

 

[bash]

Any thoughts what a sensible price would be to offer?

Honestly, I'm not sure there is such a thing. Rebuilding a Stag engine can easily run $5k or more; and I paid less than that for a 'running' car (which does seem to have a healthy engine, thank goodness). There is a reason that so many of them have been re-engined.

Thanks for the reply, Randall. Out of interest, what did you mean by there not being a sensible price? Do you mean that there is no real "guide price", or that it is not sensible to buy a non-running stag? (for the record, I know it isn't senible!).

I am also curious about the cost of an engine rebuild. Rimmer Bros has a kit with new pistons, rings, bearings, timing gears and chains, head rebuild kits, camshafts, gaskets etc. for under $1000, including a reground crankshaft. I rebuilt my TR6 engine last year, so I know that shippign and all of the little parts add up, but what am I missing? Is the $5k including labour? Assuming the heads are scrap?

Cheers
Alistair

 

[TR3driver]

Out of interest, what did you mean by there not being a sensible price?

Just a smart-alec way of saying "I don't know", really. But yeah, I don't think you can ever justify buying a Stag in need of work, on the basis that it will be worth as much as it cost you to repair. Unless you enjoy the repair/restoration process, just buy a finished car from someone else.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Rimmer Bros has a kit[/QUOTE]You might want to double-check those figures. Their web site says the kit is "Not available to order".<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] including a reground crankshaft.[/QUOTE]That sounds suspicious too, as just a reconditioned crank (must be hardened as well as reground) is over 250GBP, which is nearly $400. Add a set of pistons for 295GBP and we're already over $800. And shipping will very likely double that, or more.

Heads can also easily turn into a huge problem, as there is very little allowance for skimming, and none at all for warping. Any significant damage from corrosion will need to be repaired by welding up the surface, followed by milling the surface, then the head needs to be clamped to an engine (or special plate) and the cam bearings line-bored. Not a trivial task. Line-boring is also the only solution for wear in the cam bearings, since they are integral with the head casting (tho you can bore for inserts). Note that new heads have been unavailable for years; and it appears that even Rimmer has stopped reconditioning old ones.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Is the $5k including labour?[/QUOTE]Honestly, I've not tackled mine yet, so I'm just going on what others have said. you might want to check out the Stag Forum for more info.

 

[StagByTriumph]

Alistair,
Non-running stag, anywhere from $free to say somewhere around $3000 if it is complete.

You will have to do a complete restore, suspension bits, rubber bits, and yes, the engine should be gone through.
Do not consider an engine shop unless they are clean and well organized, and know the Triumph V8 issues and how to correct them. Rebuilding a Triumph V8 is not like rebuilding US lumps, you need to go back to all original measurements and come forward

On the up side, a fully restored Stag to show/factory condition can draw over $25k. But you will need to consider using your own labor because restoration shops are very costly.

BUT, do not even attempt an engine rebuild until you consult the folks in the Triumph Stag Club USA for all details. We have "been there, done that" and have Triumph V8 engines that have travel over 100k miles without failure.

Cheers!

 

[prb51]

" On the up side, a fully restored Stag to show/factory condition can draw over $25k. But you will need to consider using your own labor because restoration shops are very costly."
It seems to me you'd still be upside down in that deal even if you did everything yourself.
In other words, unless you don't care or love rebuilding cars, buy one already restored. Pay the money upfront or later.

 

[bash]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I went to see the car on Friday and it arrived in my driveway this evening! It is surprisingly solid, but it has been off the road for a long time (the inspection sticker in the windscreen expired June 1979!), so I have no doubt that there will be some headaches trying to get it back on the road. I know that it would be cheaper and easier to get a restored car, but I want this to be a project - this is a hobby for me. I am just "finishing" (neer really finished, right?) a TR6 and while I am not foolish enough to keep a tally of the money spent, the wad of TRF invoices tells me that I could have picked up a nice TR6 for a lot less! It is just a slow drain though, rather than the sudden expense of buying a nice car, so my wife doesn't really even notice!

I have joined the club, Glenn, but the forum there seems to be very quiet - how do I access the "been there, done that" knowledge bank??

Wish me luck - I have a feeling I will need it!
Cheers
Alistair