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TR2/3/3A Squeaking Clutch when hot

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The engine sounds nice and idles low which is nice. I am not sure what an engine bearing does when the bearing SPINS. Maybe those little tabs on shell go flat. To me the engine sounds nice and I do not know if a spun bearing would make a difference, but surly not a good thing

The noise sounds to me like a TB rubbing.

Does your slave cylinder have a return spring on it? If the spring is one of those strong springs, I would test the car without it, and perhaps “hillbilly up” some softer spring just for the test. I cannot justify completely why I think it might be the spring, but I have seen those strong wrong spring cause problems usually with clutch engagement. Anyways you said the clutch works fine; I guess I am thinking the TB is hitting on an uneven different plane that is not parallel. So pretty crazy huh?

steve
 
Yes, slave has a fairly strong return spring on it. I absolutely agree this sure sounds like a throw out bearing and that has been much of my focus. Assuming I have the slave cylinder adjusted properly so the TO bearing is held away from the clutch, it should not be spinning at all when the noise is present at 1200+ RPM. I'm considering sliding a bore scope into the side of the bell housing to observe the TO bearing while RPM are higher. That's the only way I know to confirm 100% the TO bearing is not rotating somehow.
 
I would think the engine flywheel and clutch rolling around in the tight bellhousing is going to force the TB to spin some. My car makes a noise when in neutral like the TB is rubbing and has been doing that for probably 25 years. The strong spring is correct for the early Lockheed 1 ÂĽ slave cylinders. Some people seem ok with the strong spring. Moss only sells the strong spring. TRF used to sell both springs, but they had a firer and are trying to reopen, maybe call them.

Try a softer spring. Just eyeball it and get one that pulls back enough to just take out the slop

Do you have padding on the transmission cover? The cars are small and noisy.

Steve
 
Nope. I'll run without a spring tonight and report back. Yes, I have padding on transmission cover but much of it is off currently while I'm working on it. Also, I just got in the bore scope and hope to video the TO bearing soon.
 
Putting a scope inside the bellhousing sounds cool. I am interested in what you find. My thoughts on the strong spring were the spring holds the clutch shaft so tight that the sound might be enhanced, I know that sounds out there/crazy.

Many people have had problems with the clutch not dis-engaging because the slave cylinder spring would not let linkage travel to the end and disengage the clutch. However, it sounds like your car drives and shifts fine. And there are people with british cars that take the spring off and run without the spring. I like some pull back on the linkage

The noise I get in my cars in neutral and running is a whirling sound, or might be the TB or perhaps the whole package whirling around. When I push in the clutch, things quiet down.



Steve
 
SP, the whirling sound is old trans bearings slowly dying. Keep the lube fresh and clean, drive & enjoy.
If you find metal in the lube you change out, do NOT drive much further,especially with an OD box. A types
are sensitive to metal and will suffer greatly with "swarff".The 4/6 boxes are prone to countershaft
bearing failure. that gets really awful. If ignored, the box will be scrap in short order.(seen it several times)
Mad dog
 
MC is right about whirring being a sign of bearings dying in a tranny. With the clutch in, however, the box comes to a dead stop...so still not the answer to your noise. The only bearing loaded with the clutch in is the throwout bearing, which I would assume is also new and not likely the cause. But, new parts are not always good parts!?!
 
I just was over at a friends garage to see his progress on his new motor. While holding a cold one, I spun his
TO bearing to see how it was holding up. It was SHOT to heck at only 3 K miles from new!!!!! He was surprised too
but said it was noisy. This thing was ready to shed its little balls it was so fried ! I think that there had NEVER been any lube
put in when made. It came from Moss, so they may well have a bad batch on the shelf. I for one, am the guy who takes a NEW
TO bearing and works as much Amyloid grease as I can past the seals .Labor intensive to be sure but even a new bearing
feels better when this is done. The Amyloid does not melt when hot so it stays in place a good long time.
Mad dog
 
Removed the slave return spring and noise started normal at about 15 mins into a drive.
HOWEVER, the noise now behaves differently and is pretty much constant while idling with no difference if clutch is pressed or not.
Since TO bearing is not pulled away from clutch, that mostly confirms it is the TO bearing. Anyone agree?
So either it is a bad TO bearing from moss or the wrong type.
Original TR3 TO bearing had a rounded face like a donut. When I changed to TR4 gearbox, I installed the used TO bearing from the TR4 and it has more of a flat face.
Noise was present so I replaced with a new “TR3” TO bearing from Moss but it also had the same flat face.
Bad TO bearing or need one with a rounded face?
 
Ariddick said:
Removed the slave return spring and noise started normal at about 15 mins into a drive.
HOWEVER, the noise now behaves differently and is pretty much constant while idling with no difference if clutch is pressed or not.
Since TO bearing is not pulled away from clutch, that mostly confirms it is the TO bearing. Anyone agree?
So either it is a bad TO bearing from moss or the wrong type.
Original TR3 TO bearing had a rounded face like a donut. When I changed to TR4 gearbox, I installed the used TO bearing from the TR4 and it has more of a flat face.
Noise was present so I replaced with a new “TR3” TO bearing from Moss but it also had the same flat face.
Bad TO bearing or need one with a rounded face?
Click to expand...
The TO bearing needs to be compatible with the type of clutch you have not with the tranny. A TR3/4 clutch will work with a TR4-6 tranny. But the TR3&4 both use the same clutch and TO bearing. It changed at the TR4A when they also changed the clutch from a 3 finger ( TR3) to the multi fingered apperature clutch .
Did you also change the TO bearing carrier in these switches? Each of those bearings has a different carrier. The TR3 should be the rounded bearing. The bearing should be a tight fit on the carrier. If it is loose that could be the squealing noise. I can provide a pic of the two TO bearings and carriers if that helps. Let me know.
Charley
 
Through this process, I do have a new TO bearing (Moss 595-000) and new carrier (596-010). The new and old carriers were the same and the bearings pressed onto the last 1/4” of the carrier so I doubt TO is spinning on the carrier. Moss shows bearing and carrier are for TR2-4. I do have the older 3 finger clutch so in theory they are all compatible. I don’t see the rounded type TO bearing on Moss.
 
Ariddick said:
Through this process, I do have a new TO bearing (Moss 595-000) and new carrier (596-010). The new and old carriers were the same and the bearings pressed onto the last 1/4” of the carrier so I doubt TO is spinning on the carrier. Moss shows bearing and carrier are for TR2-4. I do have the older 3 finger clutch so in theory they are all compatible. I don’t see the rounded type TO bearing on Moss.
Click to expand...
I just looked at some old TO bearings both TR3/4 and TR4A/6. I stand corrected-- the rounded bearing is on the later TR4A/6. And the flat bearing is on the TR3/4.
Charley
 
charleyf said:
The TO bearing needs to be compatible with the type of clutch you have not with the tranny. A TR3/4 clutch will work with a TR4-6 tranny. But the TR3&4 both use the same clutch and TO bearing. It changed at the TR4A when they also changed the clutch from a 3 finger ( TR3) to the multi fingered apperature clutch .
Did you also change the TO bearing carrier in these switches? Each of those bearings has a different carrier. The TR3/4 should be the flat bearing( edited).The bearing should be a tight fit on the carrier. If it is loose that could be the squealing noise. I can provide a pic of the two TO bearings and carriers if that helps. Let me know.
Charley
Click to expand...
 
If you look on the Moss catalog you will find under. TR4A and TR6 the rounded TO bearing and the longer carrier.
Charley
 
What is the most likely solution? It seems there are two options unless there is some other possibility.
1. I have a bad "new" TO bearing, so just do what I did last time and order the same replacement.
2. I have the wrong type of TO bearing. While I have a TR3 clutch, I originally pulled out the 'rounded' TO bearing. I could order the rounded style or I could certainly put in the original TO bearing I pulled out but I've heard always replace the TO bearing. I hate to use an old one.

Is there anything else it could likely be? I probably will still do the bore scope to see what is going on in there when the noise is present. I expect to see the noise is present when TO bearing is rotating, but could find it is when the carrier is rotating.
 
The carrier should have a pin to prevent rotation. If the pin is missing, that could be the problem. Also, if you adjust the clutch properly, the TO bearing will not make contact with the clutch fingers unless you press the pedal.
 
Finally put a bore scope in the bell housing and confirmed 100% the throw out bearing is not spinning while the noise is present. The video below (no audio) shows the TO stops spinning when released from the clutch. The clutch is spinning in the bottom right but very hard to see. In the video, you are looking at the back side of the TO carrier and the TO bearing. I watched the TO in realtime while reproducing the noise.
Engaging the TO bearing slightly spins it up and the noise is also not present. When applying more pressure, that is when the noise is present. Or, when over 1200 RPM the noise is present. TO bearing confirmed not spinning then.
So it is forward of TO. Clutch, flywheel, pilot bearing (recently replaced), crank main bearings??

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=848028217304333
 
Neat video...I've said all along it's not the TO bearing.

Can you tell if it is the front or rear of the engine?
 
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