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Sports Cars

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Graham,
Defining what is, and what is not a sports car is a twofold operation. First, we have perception. Second, we have definition.

Perception is that anything which is fast is a sports car. Perception often is that a sports car cannot be a GT car.

Defining sports car is different. As my article mentions, sports cars were defined originally (and continued until the advertising explosion in the late 60s) to be a purpose-built (usually not sedan-derived frame) nimble vehicle with performance (acceleration, handling) exceeding the average contemporary family car. Certainly there are sports cars that somewhat break the definition, but for the most part, it holds true.

A sports car can be a gran turismo (GT,) by adding appropriate comfort equipment. I agree that many Ferraris were specifically GTs rather than true sports cars. SuperAmericas, Superfasts, 330America, 365GTC4 are certainly much more akin to a sporty GT due to size and weight.
 
Graham and Sam - those were my thoughts. What defines a sports car both personally and by a formal definition.

For me it has always been cars with no roll up windows, roadsters and for reasons I don't really know alomost always English. I would have to say that the English have made more "sports cars" than most other countries. I can't call a Porsche 911 or any derivative theerof a sport car. Porsche Spyder yes.

As I had mentioned earlier I thought Mustangs etc had a lot of nerve calling themselves sports car and now everyone calls whatever a sports car.

I thought perhaps younger people would list only Mitsubishi 3000, Mazda RX 7 and cars like that but not many got mentioned.

It was fun reading what people said.
 
Remembering the key word here is perception.

I would think that the definition of the term “Sports Car”, or for that matter Sedan, Truck or anything else, would naturally change and/or evolve with the passage of time.

Technology, design and the car buyer’s pallet are constantly in a state of flux (evolving or devolving depending on how you look at it) never remaining the same. If it didn’t I fear we’d all be driving those annoying little Yugos or Trabants type vehicles. How boring would that be?

An extreme example to make my point would be the description of Trucks. Today they are a far cry from what they where at their inception. Save the most basic of the design elements (a bed), I’m not sure that they’d be recognizable to someone who purchased or drove say a pre-WWI truck. Would he turn his nose up to it because it doesn’t fit in with his “perception” of what a truck should be? Don’t know, but I tend to think he’d probably love the improvements.

That said: I don't think Fangio (if'n he was still with us) would turn down a chance to drive a 2004 Ferrari.
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Bret - interesting thoughts and I agree. Seems it also has to do with what era we are from.
 
I certainly agree with Bret. The definitions change with market requirments and technology -- hence as do the perceptions.

Cars with no roll-up windows and two seats are roadsters, but not all roadsters are sports cars
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. As my article pointed out, a Miata is called a roadster now, and it makes sense to do so, because there's not much market for a car with removable weather equipment.

There's no doubt a Porsche 911 is a sports car. It also happens to be a fantastic GT. In fact, it's probably a more pure sports car than a 356, because the 356 was a fairly strong derivative of the Beetle. I've owned a 911 (1970 911T,) but I've never been a huge fan. Fun cars, and comfortable, but I'm a convertible guy, and the cabriolets came too late in production.

Mustangs -- yup, I agree...sporty sedan-based coupes. Pony cars by definition, along with Camaro and Firebird.

The modern market is fairly funny. BMW M5 is a "sport sedan" not a sports car, as are Audi's S4 and Mercedes E55. What really gets me is Cadillac trying to market the SRX SUV as a SUV that handles like a sports car.

An SUV is an SUV. No matter how fast it is, or how it handles compared to other SUVs, it is not, nor will ever be a sports car. Porsche Cayenne included!
 
I think a lot of the changing terminology is not so much market driven as "Marketing" driven. The advertising people decide that the name sportscar sells so their 2 door 4 seater with a "sporty" body becomes a sports car. Much the same as limosine gets bandied arround now for any large sedan/saloon type car. To "Me" a limosine is what Rolls Royce , Cadillac ,Daimler and their like built in the 30s very large with a glass partition between the drivers compartment and the passenger section. Some modern ones may fit that criteria, but plenty of large sedans are called limmos because of the current day marketing.

When I posted a reply here last night a (mustang owner) freind and I had been having a few
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and I included some mustangs in sportscar. Amazing the effect
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has, as I love mustangs but don't consider any of them sportscars. 2 seater T Birds yes and 2 seater Corvettes well yes I surpose but not mustangs. (No 2 seaters)But that's just me , to "me" no matter how good a 911 Porsche is its still not a sportscar. But a bugeye sprite that bombs out at 70 mph is.

Anyway it's been very interesting hearing other peoples point of view, and I really do think a lot of our views are formed due to our ages and experiances.

Thanks Bruce, good thread.
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Anyone 35 to 50 years old name 5 sports cars
1)Corvette
2)Lamborghini Gallardo
3)Porsche 911 GT3
4)Ferrari 360
5)Viper SRT-10

AT least from todays offering those would be among my personal favorites...

From the past?

Jaguar E type
Alfa Duetto Spider
Porsche 911
Corvette (1963-67)
Lotus Elan or/Europa
 
OK after staying awake half the night I would have to call a 911 Porsche a sports car and also many others that I thought not to be. What I will not call a sports car though is a 4 door BMW or the like and any 2 door coupe with more or less full back seats that the manufacturers are calling sports cars as a marketing device.
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Again it was interesting seeing people's thoughts.
 
Bruce,
I look at the pictures on the bottom of your posts, and I see Two E Types, one a drophead, a definite sportscar, and the other a 2+2 hardtop which I will admit I would also call a sportscar, even if it doesn't quite fit the definition I have always thought I beleived. And I surpose if it is true for Jaguars, it would also be for any thing else.

I would still draw the line at 2 doors though.

Gives us old fellers brain strain thinkin about it.
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.
 
What are people's thoughts on the RX-8? Definitly sporty but its got some extra mini doors. Not quite a sedan but not quite a pure sports car either.

mazda-rx8_b4.jpg
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 78Z:
What are people's thoughts on the RX-8? ....<hr></blockquote>

I see it as a small, fast sedan.....*really* fast, in fact. I followed one around Lime Rock last month....for about 10 seconds....at which point he shifted into second gear and ran away from all of us in the street car class. He would have beat most of the racers in the other class too.

As for sports cars:

Anyone 50 or older name 5 sports cars

1) Bugatti 35B
2) MGA
3) Lotus Seven
4) Austin Healey Bugeye / Frogeye Sprite
5) Ford Model "A" or "T" Speedster ( https://www.nwvs.org/CarPhotos/003B/003B.shtml )

[ 04-29-2004: Message edited by: aeronca65t ]</p>
 
Mazda RX8? sports car?

The issue now with categorizing cars is that there a whole bunch of new cars always coming out, some creating a new segment on their own. There are numerous examples of this, it's almost confusing to even follow all of the new cars now...
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Not like the old days when I suggest that overall categorizing was far easier.

As for the RX8... in comparison to the old RX7 (either series 1, 2 or 3) it isn't a sports car, yet Mazda supposedly claims the ancestry of the RX7 as part of the inspiration of the RX8.

And related to that, I think people now are more and more wanting an all-in-one car. So a car like the RX8 becomes to some degree a little ambiguous.

Sports car? I'm inclined to say no...
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 78Z:
What are people's thoughts on the RX-8? <<SNIP>>
<hr></blockquote>

Hmmm? Well I agree that it is sporty, but I’d consider it more of a GT personally.

I’m not a big fan of the RX-8 but there is always the chance that it will grow on me. Anyway I feel that the Mazda Miata more so than the RX-8 would more snugly fit into my “perception” of what a sports car is.

So lets see if we can surmise what we’ve all said thus far?

What is or isn’t a Sports Car.
Soft-top/convertible and/or removable hard top (with some exceptions)
No roll up windows (with some exceptions)
Two seats (with some exceptions)
Two doors (with some exceptions - but NO 4 doors definitely!)
Front engine with Rear wheel drive (with some exceptions)
Staggering performance – Twistys & straight line (with some exceptions)

What have we all learned? Don’t know, but one thing for sure Spoilers & Sport Wings don’t belong on Minivans. Also Mustangs shouldn’t be called Sports Cars or use the acronym GTs (with some exceptions).

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I would not consider the RX-8 a sports car. A GT yes a sports car no. I think sports cars are meant to be convertibles, and they don't have to just be roadsters. I also have a question for everyone. Adam mentioned Jaguar D-Tpye as a sports car. Would it really be a sports car being a pure breed racer. Surely all its derivates the XKSS and the E-Tpye are sports cars but would it also be one?

Cheers,
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Walter
 
It's hard to narrow it down but here are a few different cars I would like to own.

Anyone 20 years old or under name 5 sports cars
1)Lotus Elise
2)Datsun Roadster
3)Datsun 240z
4)Toyota Supra 93+
5)Nissan 240sx

There is rear wheel drive and wrong wheel drive, I think you can tell which one I like.
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Jon12:
There is rear wheel drive and wrong wheel drive<hr></blockquote>

^i like that. and i wouldnt really consider the rx8 a sports car. id put it under a fast and sporty family sedan. why else would it have backseats and back doors. now maybe if they droped the top and the back seats it could be a sports car.
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by adam90009:


^i like that. and i wouldnt really consider the rx8 a sports car. id put it under a fast and sporty family sedan. why else would it have backseats and back doors. now maybe if they droped the top and the back seats it could be a sports car.<hr></blockquote>

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a sports car needs to be a convertible? have you driven one yet, or sat in it? it's definitely not a sedan. they purposely engineered it so you could call it a 4-seat sports car. you sit in it and you see exactly what they mean.

in any event, if you wanted you could call it a 2+2 i guess. it's no more a sedan than a Porsche 911.

on a side note, my friend took delivery this monday of a new Nissan 350Z, the Enthusiast edition. i can safely say that that is indeed a sports car.
 
My wife used to own a Dodge Shadow 2dr hatch. This thing was a turdly economy car by anyone's definition - except our insurance. They classified it as a sports car! So she paid more on insurance than I did on my Z28!
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