Spitfire Spitfire 4

[DanNagy]

I just added a Spitfire 4 to the collection of stuff not running, but this one I want to get running. The engine is frozen on it, and I have an opportunity to buy a 1500 engine for it. Will it fit? Do I even want it? I read that the reliability isn't that great on the 1500 engine, and it's barely any faster than the 1147 cc. Maybe somebody here has a spare they want to sell? I would like to get this up and running in August if possible.

On the TR6 front, I decided to add the TBI fuel injection sooner than expected. After my last drive in July, the Webers are just not doing it for me. My mechanic will put it in because I just can't do the welding and spend weeks on the installation. It really looks simple enough for me to do, but I want the car ready when I return. I'll be back in the U.S. for the month of August, and want to have some good cruising in PA. Testimony indicates that gas mileage will improve significantly, and in these times, that's nothing to scoff at.

On my last trip I also broke/stripped the gear where the speedo cable screws in to the tranny. I was hoping for another busted cable, but no luck. I really don't need to know how fast I am going anyway, right?

The little electrical fire from June turned out to be a short caused by the headlight switch. Strange.

I expect stuff to now break only once in awhile instead of every drive.

 

[aeronca65t]

I've seen 1500 engines in Mk.1s
As far as i can tell, it's a drop in. If you can get the newer 1500 trans, that's slightly better too.

Like all Spit engines, the 1500 needs to have thrust washers changed regularly.
A carefully maintained 1500 is just as good (or bad) as other Spit engines in terms of reliablity.
It will not rev as high as the 1147, but has more torque, so it's kind of a trade off.
And the eight port head will breathe much better at higher revs (though I wouldn't rev a stock 1500 too high...I keep my race 1500 under 5800 rpm).

The 8-port, 1300 engine is really the best Spit engine due to the best head and best bore/stroke ratio.

 

[Andrew Mace]

I've seen 1500 engines in Mk.1s
As far as i can tell, it's a drop in. If you can get the newer 1500 trans, that's slightly better too.

Correct all around; it is 99% drop-in. Your Spitfire 4 undoubtedly will have an accelerator linkage that will need to be modified -- or changed to a cable setup -- to deal with whatever carburetor(s) the 1500 has. Otherwise, all will bolt up, and most Spitfires will have enough "adjustment" in the propeller shaft to accommodate the ever-so-slightly longer later gearboxes (either all-synchro three-rail or single-rail "Marina" box, neither of which -- IMO -- has any advantage over the other). But you'll need to change the input flange on the front of the propeller shaft to fit either later gearbox; no big deal, since u-joints are the same.

The 8-port, 1300 engine is really the best Spit engine due to the best head and best bore/stroke ratio.

Agreed, particular the earlier version (FD, FE series, sharing the same bottom end as per the 1147). The later 1300 is ok as well, but BLMC "commonised" the bottom end with other products, so bearings got smaller and arguably less durable.

Personally, I've always liked the 1147, despite some of its limitations. It just seems to "fit" the early cars better (in spirit or charm, if you will). Yes, maybe it's just a bit less of a modern highway car; on the other hand, there's no shortage of later Spitfires if that's what you want. If needed, rebuild and/or freshen up the 1147 as per the old Competition Preparation Manual recommendations, and I think you'll be happy!

 

[DanNagy]

Well, I found a rebuilt 1500 engine cheap, and thought it might be an easy way to get it running, and then work on the 1147 as I can. I have never taken an engine apart, so this would be a good start for me because this one is simple and lightweight for me to handle.

 

[foxtrapper]

I'm pretty sure I've got a spare 1147 parts engine or two. Don't know where you are in PA, but I'm in Maryland just a bit south of Gettysburg.

 

[DanNagy]

Okay Foxtrapper, we should talk. I'll be in central PA.

 

[dklawson]

I'll be watching your progress as I just paid for a '72 Mk4 on Tuesday and will be trailering it home on Sunday. I'm not sure what shape I'll find the engine and gearbox in... the car has been off the road for two owners and two years. I wish us both luck.

 

[DanNagy]

Congrats Doug. I'll pick mine up in August.

Before I start on the Spitfire, I am going to finish up the TR7 in August and sell it. I need to rebuild the carb, put in a battery, and stick some new tires on it. It runs and there isn't any rust on it at all, so I hope to get enough from it to at least cover costs.

I really fell in love with the Spit after I sat in one a month ago. It is one tiny car that I can fit into. And the fact that the hood opens to expose the entire engine is fantastic for a novice. I don't think I need heavy equipment to move stuff around, either. With a few friends, perhaps I can lift the body off of it and any other part, including the engine. I may buy/rent a lift for that, though.

The engine will be the big prize for me. I have always envied how the guys in here were able to do this stuff themselves, and take joy in that when they drive their cars. I have tried in the past to do my own work and usually caused more damage than anything. But I was in a hurry, and didn't have the proper tools or the inclination to take my time and really read about what I should be doing. Let's say it was more about saving money than it was about a hobby.

I have done some body work in the past, but never totally stripped a car of it's paint. This one is simple enough that I think I can take everything apart and fit it back together. I do remember somebody saying in here that they put every part in a bag and label where it goes. I think he also took a photo. That is a great idea.

I am going to put together a project plan, take some photos of what showed up at my door, and chart the progress on a web site. I think Basel hosts right here, so I'll need to explore how that works.

 

[dklawson]

It sounds like you are going to be taking on a proper restoration project. For us, the Spit will be a rolling-restoration. I bought it specifically because I found our GT6 easy to work on and I wanted a project car to help educate my sons on automotive basics. Neither boy is a wrench turner and the older boy has just started driving. I don't expect them to become mechanics but I do hope our Spit proves to be a fun educational tool.

There are cosmetic problems with our Spit, however, our first goal will be to sort out what previous owners (plural) have done in disassembling things. Primarily, we will have to replace the water pump and radiator and sort through the disassembled wiring. Once that's done I will go through the brakes on the assumption that they have been neglected. After that it will be on to the floors and some minor body work.

I hope to be on the road in the fall. Were I doing the work myself, being on the road in the fall would not be a problem. However, this is supposed to be a learning tool for my sons. With their "help" this will take quite a bit longer.

This is a general question for those following this thread. Our GT6 is seldom used and hasn't required parts in years. I bought most of my parts for it (way back when) from TRF using a copy of the original parts list for the car. I have also bought the occasional part from VB. I know that the Spitfire has more supporting vendors. Would you guys mind letting me know who your preferred parts sources are (Spitbitz, Moss, VB, TRF, others...) ? I assume TRF would still require me to have an original parts list to inquire about parts... do they sell such a guide for Spitfires? Thanks.

 

[Andrew Mace]

...I assume TRF would still require me to have an original parts list to inquire about parts... do they sell such a guide for Spitfires? Thanks.

It's not so much that TRF <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">requires</span></span> OEM part numbers, but that's what they use (as opposed to Moss and VB, who've long made up their own numbers for whatever reasons). However, I think you can use the toll-free numbers if you have OEM part numbers, but you pay for the call when you simply ask if they have a frammistat for a '67 Spitfire. :wink:

Last I knew, TRF still had a comprehensive catalogue for the Spitfire 1500, which also will serve reasonably well for earlier cars (less so the earlier the car is, of course).

Spitbits is very good and has arguably the best web site for looking up Spitfire parts, and they seem to provide better online coverage of early Spitfires. I'd also throw British Parts Northwest and TS Imported Automotive into the mix as well; both are also good suppliers.

 

[eejay56]

My favorite parts suppliers are BPNW and Spitbits in that order. Both have given me good service, quality parts, good prices, ship fast and have knowledgeable people that are easy to reach on the phone. For me BPNW has an advantage because they are local and parts always get here the next day also the owner used to race Spitfires. Spitbits has a more comprehensive parts supply and tends to have stuff you can't find elsewhere.