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"Something" has always been "here".

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Billy, my advice would be to go to the empty box in your brain( that all guys have) and stay there for a while as I think with you being home a lot there may be some female genes rubbing of on you because you are thinking far far too much.:encouragement:
 
weewillie said:
there may be some female genes rubbing of on you because you are thinking far far too much.:encouragement:
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She's hardly ever home. Empty brain box? Never had one ever and believe me I tried.

Maybe it's not that I think too much but maybe some other folks don't think enough? Too many people keeping up with trivial stuff, Kim K and what not...
If I do "think too much" (which is absurd when you think about it...) it's because I don't watch a lot of TV. Here's an experiment, try watching TV with the sound off. Let your eyes "hear" what they are really trying to say.

I find sometimes imagery speaks way more than words, here's a good example of that and he makes a fine point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHjQZJ1RLQA
 
That pesky self-awareness thing is to blame for all manner of troubles.
 
Agree. This all takes me back to the good old days with my college buddies. A black light, the Moody Blues, peanut butter and saltines, sometimes some Rolling Rock. But somehow the discussions would always take us to "The Eternal Question".....Ginger or Mary-Ann?
 
:lol: gotta love it!

So, Jay... Slippery Rock or Penn State?
 
3798j said:
peanut butter and saltines,


Ginger or Mary-Ann?
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Is that some kinda hippie drug slang like chocolate chip disco biscuits? :laugh:

Mary-Ann all the way. I never did dig Gingers overly sultriness. (That's right folks, brand new werds and yew herd'em hear first! :encouragement: )
 
kellysguy said:
Is that some kinda hippie drug slang like chocolate chip disco biscuits? :laugh:
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No. In the drug slang of the day it would have been Alice B Toklas Brownies - they allowed eating to become a "joy unbounded".
 
Will, that is BRILLIANT!! THANK YOU!!

This is another great Vid:

 
kellysguy said:
No matter what you believe or which side of the fence you're on, or if you even have a fence at all, it's mutually agreed "something" has always been "here" (from an eternal perspective).
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So, you simultaneously reject the "big bang" theory and the creation myth from most major religions?

Personally, it seems obvious to me that no physical object can last forever. The time scale may be unfathomably huge, but the mountains will eventually crumble to dust, the earth's orbit around the sun will eventually decay, the sun itself will eventually run out of fuel and so on. Eventually, it all coasts to a stop. And if there will be an end, there had to be a beginning.

Even space, as we know it, does not appear to be infinite. Why should time be infinite? I have no idea what is outside of either one (or both, they are kind of the same thing), but that doesn't mean there isn't a boundary.

So I take "infinite" to be a mathematical concept, a convenient fiction kind of like imaginary numbers that makes the equations work out (sort of). You can't have an infinite number of anything (including space-time) any more than you can have the square root of minus one of anything.

BTW, as long as we're recommending books, I'll throw in a plug for Richard Bach's Illusions. It's entertaining, if nothing else.
 
TR3driver said:
So, you simultaneously reject the "big bang" theory and the creation myth from most major religions?

.
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Not at all, quite the opposite and that's me point. No matter what model you choose, "something" has always been there. On the big bang, "everything" was already here just not in it's present state. Sure, it'll all coast to a stop, mountains crumble etc but you're looking at only a portion. If the mountain crumbles, "something" will still be there, same thing with a burnt out star. Just because it's state changes doesn't mean it's nothing. I've never stated either model never changes, I said "something" has always been there. "Something" doesn't have to be in or stay in it's present form to qualify that statement. No "matter" ( pun intended) if it was in a big hot cloud or something the size of a dot, the theory states it was always there, it doesn't state that it was in it's present form and will be forever.

All life comes from life and is powered by some form of energy. Forget about creation for a moment, where did this energy come from? No, not the gases in space, how did the gases get the energy the posses to begin with? Atomic? Where did the atoms get the energy in them from to begin with? You can get something from nothing so whatever energy source there is to used and burn out has always been there even if it doesn't last forever.

Major theism states the same thing, "something" has always been here. "Nothing" doesn't exist in either model, "something" had always been there from the beginning.

If you agree infinity exists mathematically you therefore unwillingly acknowledge time without end. Time and math co exist and there is absolutely no way to separate the two. If you can count numbers and never run out, you can count seconds and never run out of numbers. The square root of negative one doesn't limit counting positive numbers towards infinity so that example doesn't fit.

I don't dismiss a starting point in time, I merely state that no matter where you start with time, it still never ends. if no one is there to count time, does that mean that it stops? If time does stop because there is nothing to count it and never will be again, isn't that in itself an eternity?


The only thing I said about space is don't get me started on it. :wink:

There may be an end to space but that is completely unrelated to the measure of time.

Space is the measure of volume or distance, time is the measure of past, present and future; two completely different dimensions.

My garage being full has nothing to do with the fact that it's 3:15:17 PM...18....19....20
 
"'Twas ever thus..."
 
Randall, I do have a school of thought for you that does support you statement, however; it will have to wait till after lunch.
 
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